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2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby rotoquest » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:55 pm

So far in the Oakland horse race to become closer, it looks like Devine has the early lead in spring training. Not that this is the measuring stick, but it is meaningful.
Devine: 2 G, 2 IP, 0.0 ERA
De Los Santos: 1 G, 2 IP, 6.75 ERA
Fuentes: 1 G, 2 IP, 9.00 ERA
Balfour: 2 G, 1.2 IP, 27.00ERA
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:08 pm

rotoquest wrote:it is meaningful

The first game of spring training is not meaningful for anything at all. The last week or two maybe, if you have a sample size of a handful of games or so versus 1 or 2 games, but it isn't even results that managers look at, really. Especially for established guys like Fuentes and Balfour. Of course this could have been a joke and now I look like an idiot... if so, then carry on.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby rotoquest » Tue Mar 06, 2012 11:17 pm

Skin Blues wrote:
rotoquest wrote:it is meaningful

The first game of spring training is not meaningful for anything at all. The last week or two maybe, if you have a sample size of a handful of games or so versus 1 or 2 games, but it isn't even results that managers look at, really. Especially for established guys like Fuentes and Balfour. Of course this could have been a joke and now I look like an idiot... if so, then carry on.

It was a joke, but no problem.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby Garry26 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:02 am

Yea unless arms start falling off :(
It is meaningful for injuries though.
If someone's hurt or got surgery, we will know if they're fine or not. Cant trust what they say anymore.

They Play. They OK.

For the last few years it has become harder to take people at their word when it comes to injuries. They lie through their teeth and Ive kept guys in my roster overlong and gotten burned, missed a decent replacement, and on occasion, missed out on a breakout.

Now we separate BS from FACT.
I love mock drafts.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby silverZ » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:41 pm

The best closers list there is, the best there ever was, and the best there will ever be.
Here's the pitch on the way, a swing and a belt! Left field! Way back! BLUE JAYS WIN!
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby Neboguy » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:17 am

Dodgers manager Don Mattingly confirmed Wednesday that Javy Guerra will open the year at closer.

"It's defined," Mattingly told the Los Angeles Daily News. "Javy's the guy. We know who the guy is right now." Kenley Jansen and his swing-and-miss stuff will be breathing down Guerra's neck from the outset, but the 26-year-old from Denton, Texas has an impressive arsenal of his own and could feasibly maintain the ninth-inning role throughout the entire 2012 campaign.

Source = Rotoworld via Los Angeles Daily News
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby Skin Blues » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:23 am

Guerra won't last long as closer. Either because of injury or ineffectiveness, I can see Jansen taking over before the ASB. He throws so hard, and so many sliders, and will be used on back to back days since he's had the closer label put on him. I don't see his arm holding up. He's also not nearly as good as Jansen even when he's healthy which is another factor. Whenever a manager comes out and says something like this it usually means there's doubt about it and they're trying to reassure the guy so he can focus on pitching. Buyer beware.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby Element » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:42 pm

Skin Blues wrote:Guerra won't last long as closer. Either because of injury or ineffectiveness, I can see Jansen taking over before the ASB. He throws so hard, and so many sliders, and will be used on back to back days since he's had the closer label put on him. I don't see his arm holding up. He's also not nearly as good as Jansen even when he's healthy which is another factor. Whenever a manager comes out and says something like this it usually means there's doubt about it and they're trying to reassure the guy so he can focus on pitching. Buyer beware.


Or it means that he's been fielding too many questions regarding it and wants to end any further discussion. I don't look into this too much. The Dodgers are a much better team with Guerra in the 9th and Jensen putting in more work than the other way around. That's not to say that there won't be a change, but I don't think that it will happen in the first half unless Guerra becomes completely ineffective.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:52 pm

Element wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:Guerra won't last long as closer. Either because of injury or ineffectiveness, I can see Jansen taking over before the ASB. He throws so hard, and so many sliders, and will be used on back to back days since he's had the closer label put on him. I don't see his arm holding up. He's also not nearly as good as Jansen even when he's healthy which is another factor. Whenever a manager comes out and says something like this it usually means there's doubt about it and they're trying to reassure the guy so he can focus on pitching. Buyer beware.


Or it means that he's been fielding too many questions regarding it and wants to end any further discussion. I don't look into this too much. The Dodgers are a much better team with Guerra in the 9th and Jensen putting in more work than the other way around. That's not to say that there won't be a change, but I don't think that it will happen in the first half unless Guerra becomes completely ineffective.
This is how I feel about it too. This happens multiple times every season, where the fantasy community loves a certain reliever and is very vocal about his clear and obvious impending term as closer, because he's clearly the superior pitcher and it's only a matter of time until the closer gets completely lit up, etc. etc. etc. This year in the early going, Jensen is one of those guys, which is why Mattingly was asked the question in the first place, which is the only reason he made any comment at all. Last year all we heard all year was that there was no way Chris Perez held onto his closing job in Cleveland. He was so bad, and the guys behind him were so much more capable, yadda yadda yadda. Yet here we are in 2012 and he's still the closer, and when he comes back from being injured he's probably still going to be the closer.

It's going to be Guerra in LA until he gives them a reason to stop giving him the ball in the 9th, regardless of how electric Jensen is.
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Re: 2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

Postby RyeWhiskey » Thu Mar 08, 2012 4:10 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Element wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:Guerra won't last long as closer. Either because of injury or ineffectiveness, I can see Jansen taking over before the ASB. He throws so hard, and so many sliders, and will be used on back to back days since he's had the closer label put on him. I don't see his arm holding up. He's also not nearly as good as Jansen even when he's healthy which is another factor. Whenever a manager comes out and says something like this it usually means there's doubt about it and they're trying to reassure the guy so he can focus on pitching. Buyer beware.


Or it means that he's been fielding too many questions regarding it and wants to end any further discussion. I don't look into this too much. The Dodgers are a much better team with Guerra in the 9th and Jensen putting in more work than the other way around. That's not to say that there won't be a change, but I don't think that it will happen in the first half unless Guerra becomes completely ineffective.
This is how I feel about it too. This happens multiple times every season, where the fantasy community loves a certain reliever and is very vocal about his clear and obvious impending term as closer, because he's clearly the superior pitcher and it's only a matter of time until the closer gets completely lit up, etc. etc. etc. This year in the early going, Jensen is one of those guys, which is why Mattingly was asked the question in the first place, which is the only reason he made any comment at all. Last year all we heard all year was that there was no way Chris Perez held onto his closing job in Cleveland. He was so bad, and the guys behind him were so much more capable, yadda yadda yadda. Yet here we are in 2012 and he's still the closer, and when he comes back from being injured he's probably still going to be the closer.

It's going to be Guerra in LA until he gives them a reason to stop giving him the ball in the 9th, regardless of how electric Jensen is.


I agree.

Furthermore, you're drafting a closer for saves, not ridiculous skills. If you were doing the latter, Sergio Romo would be worth way more than JJ Putz (given his age and injury history). So with the LAD situation, I think you have to draft Guerra as a guy who could give you 30+ saves at a cheap price, and keep your eye on the situation as best as possible.
Jansen has filthy stuff for sure, but so does Venters, Romo, Clippard, D Robertson, Benoit, Cashner, etc... Mid-Relief guys have a place on even basic squads, but they aren't to be substituted for actual closers unless you have no choice IMO.
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