2012 CLOSERS THREAD (1ST HALF)

[eneric]

As for any speculation on Kenley Jansen CBS reports this

Dodgers reliever Kenley Jansen notched his second save of the season during Sunday's contest against the Nationals, but manager Don Mattingly said he will remain the team's setup man moving forward. Jansen was called upon to pitch the ninth inning in Los Angeles' 2-0 win over the Nationals after Javy Guerra allowed a run for the third straight outing on Saturday night. However, Mattingly said Guerra will remain the team's closer for the time being. "I don't know what the assumption is for the fans and for you, but I've got to make a decision right now to try to win games and do what's best for the club," Mattingly told MLB.com. "When Kenley gave up a couple home runs [it was], 'He did the right thing [making Guerra the closer].' Javy has a couple bad days, [it's], 'Oh, make a change.'

[Syfo-Dyas]

For the same reason that a righty reliever replaces another righty; he's the closer. Just like Romo, Robertson, Pestano, Clippard, Chapman, Ogando, Boggs, Adams etc all cede to the actual closer in a 9th inning or later save situation, even though they throw with the same hand. If Santiago had a firm grasp on the job then Ventura would have went with him instead of Thornton. They were both working on the same amount of rest, the difference being Santiago had a meltdown last time out on the 25th while Thornton struck out all three batters he faced.

First of all a rightie is not a leftie, but whatever. That another debate.
So you brought up all these relievers without any proof.
Now you have to post some links that those aforementioned relievers got pulled in favor of the closer, after facing only one batter, successfully I might add, with a low pitchcount, and they had several days off.
And not only once in a while.
Regularly.
Cause if you claim they must cede to the closer, than it happens with regularity.

Until that, I stick to what I said. It's a stupid thing to burn another reliever, if it's not neccesary.

Just happened with Romo yesterday. And this has happened with him regularly the past few years.

I take your word.
So thats one.
7 to go.

[Bogey9906]

First of all a rightie is not a leftie, but whatever. That another debate.
So you brought up all these relievers without any proof.
Now you have to post some links that those aforementioned relievers got pulled in favor of the closer, after facing only one batter, successfully I might add, with a low pitchcount, and they had several days off.
And not only once in a while.
Regularly.
Cause if you claim they must cede to the closer, than it happens with regularity.

Until that, I stick to what I said. It's a stupid thing to burn another reliever, if it's not neccesary.

I think you're missing the point. Clearly established closers are brought in to start the 9th in save situations, regardless of the number of batters faced or performance of the set-up men. If the situation were as clear as Ventura claims, then Santiago would have been in, period. Leaving Thornton in for the 9th shows that Santiago's hold on the closer role is not as strong as Ventura's manager-speak would indicate. That's really all we know at this point.

[Syfo-Dyas]

First of all a rightie is not a leftie, but whatever. That another debate.
So you brought up all these relievers without any proof.
Now you have to post some links that those aforementioned relievers got pulled in favor of the closer, after facing only one batter, successfully I might add, with a low pitchcount, and they had several days off.
And not only once in a while.
Regularly.
Cause if you claim they must cede to the closer, than it happens with regularity.

Until that, I stick to what I said. It's a stupid thing to burn another reliever, if it's not neccesary.

Clearly established closers are brought in to start the 9th

Now we are getting somewhere.
But Santiago is not a clearly established closer.
And there are not many of them.
Or did I miss the news? And he is suddenly one of them?
So I guess you are missing the point.
Oh and how many times weve seen that 'the not so established' closer wasnt brought in to pitch the 9th.

Leaving Thornton in for the 9th shows that Santiago's hold on the closer role is not as strong as Ventura's manager-speak would indicate. That's really all we know at this point.

Wrong.
Some people are convinced that it indicates losing trust.
But this could mean what I said too.
Actually all we know that it could be or it could be not.
So all we know is nothing.

[Skin Blues]

But Santiago is not a clearly established closer.

This is pretty much what everybody is saying, and it seems like you agree, apparently.

[TopChuckie]

Not everything is black and white. You don't name a guy closer, especially a rookie, and all of a sudden he is Mariano Rivera in your eyes until he proves otherwise. Ventura handled his bullpen exactly how more managers should; he has several pitchers he has confidence in and several of them probably could be the closer, but it is best for a bullpen to have defined roles, so you name one the closer. But, when you have a reliever in the game and he's been going well, and he has a low pitch count, and he has favorable handedness matchups coming up, why take out a guy who "has it" that day to gamble on another guy who might not have it that day? Just like a starter is allowed to stay in as long as he's succeeding and not exceeding his pitch limit, when you bring in a reliever and he is cruising, let him go until he either isn't cruising any more or until he approaches his pitch count limit that might make him unavailable the next time you need him.

Doesn't mean you don't think the next guy would get the job done, just that the current guy is getting the job done.

[Bogey9906]

But Santiago is not a clearly established closer.

This is pretty much what everybody is saying, and it seems like you agree, apparently.

Yeah, I feel like we're talking in circles here.

Should be a very interesting week to see how the White Sox and Dodgers closer situations play out, considering the managers' comments vs. actions over the weekend.

[bayside]

As for any speculation on Kenley Jansen CBS reports this

Dodgers reliever Kenley Jansen notched his second save of the season during Sunday's contest against the Nationals, but manager Don Mattingly said he will remain the team's setup man moving forward. Jansen was called upon to pitch the ninth inning in Los Angeles' 2-0 win over the Nationals after Javy Guerra allowed a run for the third straight outing on Saturday night. However, Mattingly said Guerra will remain the team's closer for the time being. "I don't know what the assumption is for the fans and for you, but I've got to make a decision right now to try to win games and do what's best for the club," Mattingly told MLB.com. "When Kenley gave up a couple home runs [it was], 'He did the right thing [making Guerra the closer].' Javy has a couple bad days, [it's], 'Oh, make a change.'

it sucks for both Jansen owners and Giants fans alike that Mattingly might actually be inclined to use his bullpen correctly... ie use his best reliever in the highest leverage situation.

[Syfo-Dyas]

But Santiago is not a clearly established closer.

This is pretty much what everybody is saying, and it seems like you agree, apparently.

Absolutely not.
'Everybody' said that it was an indication that Ventura lost his confidence in Santiago.

[Syfo-Dyas]

Not everything is black and white. You don't name a guy closer, especially a rookie, and all of a sudden he is Mariano Rivera in your eyes until he proves otherwise. Ventura handled his bullpen exactly how more managers should; he has several pitchers he has confidence in and several of them probably could be the closer, but it is best for a bullpen to have defined roles, so you name one the closer. But, when you have a reliever in the game and he's been going well, and he has a low pitch count, and he has favorable handedness matchups coming up, why take out a guy who "has it" that day to gamble on another guy who might not have it that day? Just like a starter is allowed to stay in as long as he's succeeding and not exceeding his pitch limit, when you bring in a reliever and he is cruising, let him go until he either isn't cruising any more or until he approaches his pitch count limit that might make him unavailable the next time you need him.

Doesn't mean you don't think the next guy would get the job done, just that the current guy is getting the job done.

Exactly.