In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect' - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby MasterX1918 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:23 pm

Merlin401 wrote:I don't like looking at 2009 btw. Maybe it will be a great year for their projections but those guys still very well may bust. Travis Snider you're counting as a success? Rasmus? Who the hell knows... We'll see.

I was considering every one but Snider to be a success, I consider a prospect to be a success if a team can get a him through every level and develop him into an mlb talent. Rasmus is clearly that type of player.
Image
MasterX1918
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 2150
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby Pogotheostrich » Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:57 pm

MasterX1918 wrote:
Merlin401 wrote:I don't like looking at 2009 btw. Maybe it will be a great year for their projections but those guys still very well may bust. Travis Snider you're counting as a success? Rasmus? Who the hell knows... We'll see.

I was considering every one but Snider to be a success, I consider a prospect to be a success if a team can get a him through every level and develop him into an mlb talent. Rasmus is clearly that type of player.

By that definition Rick Ankiel was a success.
Image
Pogotheostrich
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21623
(Past Year: 389)
Joined: 9 Dec 2002
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: St. Louis

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby MasterX1918 » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:05 pm

Pogotheostrich wrote:
MasterX1918 wrote:
Merlin401 wrote:I don't like looking at 2009 btw. Maybe it will be a great year for their projections but those guys still very well may bust. Travis Snider you're counting as a success? Rasmus? Who the hell knows... We'll see.

I was considering every one but Snider to be a success, I consider a prospect to be a success if a team can get a him through every level and develop him into an mlb talent. Rasmus is clearly that type of player.

By that definition Rick Ankiel was a success.

in some ways yes and in some ways no, the Cardinals got a very good rookie year out of Ankiel and it was too bad the guy couldn't find any consistent control. He also had an alright season as an outfielder for them which nobody saw coming.

By my standards role players and journeymen are a success because those guys still contribute (i.e I consider Eric Hinske to be a success).
Image
MasterX1918
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 2150
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby ensanimal » Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:29 pm

MasterX1918 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
MasterX1918 wrote:I was considering every one but Snider to be a success, I consider a prospect to be a success if a team can get a him through every level and develop him into an mlb talent. Rasmus is clearly that type of player.

By that definition Rick Ankiel was a success.

in some ways yes and in some ways no, the Cardinals got a very good rookie year out of Ankiel and it was too bad the guy couldn't find any consistent control. He also had an alright season as an outfielder for them which nobody saw coming.

By my standards role players and journeymen are a success because those guys still contribute (i.e I consider Eric Hinske to be a success).


I think forum rules state you need to add "former Blue Jay" before Hinske's name. O:-)
ensanimal
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 10622
(Past Year: 113)
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Tim Horton's

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby MaudDib » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:15 pm

Element wrote:
kab21 wrote:
MasterX1918 wrote:why would they use Edwin Jackson as an example of a failed pitching prospect? He's no ace but Jackson has developed into a very serviceable #3 started who has helped his teams reach the world series twice. I wouldn't call that a bust. There has to be better examples out there, Homer Bailey? Andrew Miller?


Edwin jackson is still a pretty good example. You would have been drafting him for 3-4 yrs before he turned in a halfway decent season. Other prospects completely bust and never amount to anything but it's extremely common for pitchers to struggle for several years.

I also disagree with Ender. there are plenty of prospects with great MiLB stats and scouting reports that fail or take much longer than expected to develop. Matusz is one example. In fact you could make an argument for the entire Orioles expected rotation.


Guys like Matusz and Petit never had elite pure stuff. The "Prospect" terms gets thrown around loosely as well, IMO. In a case like Hochevar, the high prospect status is more or less given to him based on his projectability to the MLB level rather than his upside ability. E-Jax still has elite pure stuff and has turned into a reliable starter. His upside may not have been reached 100%, but I would hardly refer to him as a bust. He is still rather valuable.

Also, in the case of the O's 'should-be' staff, isn't that more of a failure on the O's organization rather than the players themselves?


I don't think we have given Matusz enough time to start labeling him a bust. He has pitched a 1 1/2 years in the majors and about half of it was pretty darn good and the other half was about as bad as you can get. There are other factors that could come into play (injury being the main one) and at least give the guy another year if not two before comparing him to other busted prospects.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."- Douglas Adams

Image
MaudDib
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamCafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 8016
(Past Year: 380)
Joined: 11 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby Ender » Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:27 pm

I don't like looking at 2009 btw. Maybe it will be a great year for their projections but those guys still very well may bust. Travis Snider you're counting as a success? Rasmus? Who the hell knows... We'll see.


I think I've owned every player on that 2009 list at some point already! Not bad for it only being 2012. They were all playing full time in the majors and somewhat relevant at some point within 3 years of the list. As someone who owned Travis Snider I didn't consider the draft pick a success, I don't know if you call him a success as a prospect though!
Last edited by Ender on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ender
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 7733
Joined: 30 Apr 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby Holein1 » Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:28 pm

because they pitch in seattle you have to look at hultzen paxton or walker. With pineda gone one of them will get a roster spot. I think it will be hultzen and you need to target him!
Holein1
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 518
(Past Year: 10)
Joined: 6 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Abbotsford BC

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby MasterX1918 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:36 am

Ender wrote:
I don't like looking at 2009 btw. Maybe it will be a great year for their projections but those guys still very well may bust. Travis Snider you're counting as a success? Rasmus? Who the hell knows... We'll see.


I think I've owned every player on that 2009 list at some point already! Not bad for it only being 2012. They were all playing full time in the majors and somewhat relevant at some point within 3 years of the draft. As someone who owned Travis Snider I didn't consider the draft pick a success, I don't know if you call him a success as a prospect though!

FWIW I wasn't considering Snider a success, he's a flop as far as i'm concerned. There's definitely been moments where he's looked like a big league hitter though, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he bounced back.
Image
MasterX1918
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 2150
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby Merlin401 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:36 am

Holein1 wrote:because they pitch in seattle you have to look at hultzen paxton or walker. With pineda gone one of them will get a roster spot. I think it will be hultzen and you need to target him!


Not necessarily:

1 RHP Felix Hernandez
2 LHP Jason Vargas
3 RHP Kevin Millwood
4 RHP Hisashi Iwakuma
5 RHP Hector Noesi
?
Merlin401
College Coach
College Coach


Posts: 349
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: In Search of the Elusive 'Pitching Prospect'

Postby MasterX1918 » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:02 pm

I think you proved his point, half of that rotation is utterly replaceable. It wouldn't shock me if Paxton replaced one of those guys by summer time. Hulzten and Walker need more time though, Walker hasn't pitched above A ball and Hutlzen hasn't pitched in the minors at all.
Image
MasterX1918
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar
Cafe WriterCafe Ranker
Posts: 2150
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball

Previous

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Laicekl and 9 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Sep. 23
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at Cleveland
(7:05 pm)
Baltimore at NY Yankees
(7:05 pm)
NY Mets at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Seattle at Toronto
(7:07 pm)
Chi White Sox at Detroit
(7:08 pm)
Philadelphia at Miami
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Milwaukee at Cincinnati
(7:10 pm)
Tampa Bay at Boston
(7:10 pm)
Pittsburgh at Atlanta
(7:10 pm)
St. Louis at Chi Cubs
(8:05 pm)
Houston at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Arizona at Minnesota
(8:10 pm)
LA Angels at Oakland
(10:05 pm)
San Francisco at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)
Colorado at San Diego
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact