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Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby Tennessee Jed » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:06 am

you guys both have Bauer relatively high, way higher than I've seen from other lists such as baseball america's top 100. any reason?
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby PlayingWithFire » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:47 pm

Tennessee Jed wrote:you guys both have Bauer relatively high, way higher than I've seen from other lists such as baseball america's top 100. any reason?


Baseball America's top 100 is out for 2012? Can you link me?

Things to like about Bauer(scouting report courtesy of Baseball America, because I'm not a scout and haven't seen him in person)
Plus fastball
Plus Plus Curve
Plus Slider
Above Average Slider
Solid Change
A fun pitch called "The Bird" that he makes up on the go
Throw a ton of innings in college, 10 Complete games in 16 starts senior year
Strikeout rate was elite in college for the last 2 years.
Walk rate was reasonable in college.
Pro debut was mostly impressive

Things not to like about Bauer
6 foot 0
175 lbs
Effort in delivery
Threw a lot of innings in college
Command not the greatest in short pro sample last year
Last pro start was terrible last year.

I don't know, really liked Lincecum when he was drafted and see quite a few parallel here. Both are shortish pac 10 pitchers with weird(I call efficient) delivery who's mostly fastball/curve and who strikes out a lot of people. Tim Lincecum never struggled in the minors like Bauer's last start in AA though. Also, Lincecum wouldn't be the dominant pitcher he is today without his change and slider, both of which are develop/refined after he became a pro. We'll see, I certainly like him better than Teheran, Taillon or Turner.
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby Tennessee Jed » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:52 am

maybe i was looking at last year's and didnt realize it
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby Fielder's Buffet » Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:47 pm

I'll add to Playing with fire's list on Bauer... what caught my attention was not only his ability but his smarts. biomechanics (believe his father is an engineer), and very cerebral pitcher who has broken pitching down to a science on how and where to pitch. Kind of like Greg Maddux. Unlike most pitching prospects, he already has a plan for successful pitching instead of relying on an organization to make the plan for him.
I've done a bit of reading on him and this really stuck out to me... on top of this he's a hard worker who believes in the more throwing the better... ala Nolan Ryan.

Healthwise and mechanics wise Bauer believes the arm slot and position of the elbow is critical to avoiding health problems. Pitchers who bring their elbows above their shoulder are more prone to problems so his motion is crafted to avoid injury.

Picked him up in a dynasty league so I'm a bit biased, but he's very intriguing to me....
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby Fielder's Buffet » Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:14 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:1. Matt Moore-P-TB
2. Bryce Harper-OF-Was
3. Mike Trout-OF-Ana
4. Trevor Bauer-P-Ari
5. Jesus Montero-C-Sea
6. Jurickson Profar-SS-Tex
7. Julio Teheran-P-Atl
8. Manny Machado-SS-Bal
9. Shelby Miller-P-Stl
10. Devin Mesoraco-C-Cin
11. Dylan Bundy-P-Bal
12. Jameson Taillon-P-Pit
13. Nolan Arenado-3B-Col
14. Yonder Alonso-1B-SD
15. James Paxton-P-Sea
16. Tyler Skaggs-P-Ari
17. Anthony Rendon-3B-Was
18. Bubba Starling-OF-KC
19. Archie Bradley-P-Ari
20. Will Myers-OF-KC
21. Jacob Turner-P-Det
22. Jarrod Parker-P-Oak
23. Travis D’Arnaud-C-Tor
24. Taijuan Walker-P-Sea
25. Miguel Sano-3B-Min
26. Danny Hultzen-P-Sea
27. Francisco Lindor-SS-Cle
28. Carlos Martinez-P-Stl
29. Anthony Rizzo-1B-ChC
30. Randall Delgado-P-Atl
31. Jake Marisnick-OF-Tor
32. Yasmani Grandal-C-SD
33. Jean Segura-2B-Ana
34. Xander Bogaerts-SS-Bos
35. Hak-Ju Lee-SS-TB
36. Jonathan Schoop-2B-Bal
37. AJ Cole-P-Oak
38. Gary Brown-OF-SF
39. Drew Pomeranz-P-Col
40. Martin Perez-P-Tex
41. Chrstian Yelich-OF-Mia
42. Michael Choice-OF-Oak
43. Gerrit Cole-P-Pit
44. Jake Odorizzi-P-KC
45. Nick Franklin-SS-Sea
46. Cheslor Cuthbert-3B-KC
47. Jonathan Singleton-1B-Hou
48. George Springer-OF-Hou
49. Brad Peacock-P-Oak
50. Andrelton Simmons-SS-Atl


;-D Thanks for sharing and I like it
One player I'd add to top 50 (more for 2013/14, but still high on 2012) is Gary Sanchez... there's a reason the Yankees could deal Jesus... they have another young C that will walk on water
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby PlayingWithFire » Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:36 pm

If Gary Sanchez doesn't work out they also have Austin Romine too...
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby kab21 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:40 pm

PlayingWithFire wrote:If Gary Sanchez doesn't work out they also have Austin Romine too...


They dealt Montero because they have a lot of DH's on their roster and filled a desperate need. Sanchez could be very good and should be in the top 50 but Romine is the type that the Yankees grudgingly start because they don't have a better player.

I think it's highly unlikely that I put together a top 50 list this year. I need to make sure that I get my draft prep done and I am busy.
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby Tennessee Jed » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:20 pm

any of you have a chance to check out Keith Law's top 100? if so, what do you think?

RANK POSITION PLAYER TEAM HEIGHT WEIGHT AGE
1 CF Mike Trout L.A. Angels 6-1 217 20
2 RF Bryce Harper Washington 6-2 245 19
3 LHP Matt Moore Tampa Bay 6-2 205 22
4 SS Manny Machado Baltimore 6-3 185 19
5 RHP Shelby Miller St. Louis 6-3 195 21
6 C Travis d'Arnaud Toronto 6-2 195 22
7 SS Jurickson Profar Texas 5-11 165 18
8 C Devin Mesoraco Cincinnati 6-1 220 23
9 DH/C Jesus Montero Seattle 6-3 235 22
10 RHP Gerrit Cole Pittsburgh 6-4 220 21
11 RHP Dylan Bundy Baltimore 6-1 200 19
12 SS Hak-Ju Lee Tampa Bay 6-2 170 21
13 OF Wil Myers Kansas City 6-3 205 21
14 RHP Arodys Vizcaino Atlanta 6-0 190 21
15 OF Bubba Starling Kansas City 6-4 180 19
16 RHP Jameson Taillon Pittsburgh 6-6 225 20
17 3B Anthony Rendon Washington 6-0 190 21
18 RHP Julio Teheran Atlanta 6-2 175 21
19 RHP Archie Bradley Arizona 6-4 225 19
20 LHP Martin Perez Texas 6-0 180 20
21 RHP Trevor Bauer Arizona 6-1 175 21
22 RHP Carlos Martinez St. Louis 6-0 165 20
23 LHP Manny Banuelos N.Y. Yankees 5-11 155 20
24 RHP Taijuan Walker Seattle 6-4 195 19
25 LHP Tyler Skaggs Arizona 6-4 195 20
26 3B Nolan Arenado Colorado 6-1 205 20
27 RHP Zack Wheeler N.Y. Mets 6-4 185 21
28 3B Miguel Sano Minnesota 6-3 195 18
29 RHP Jacob Turner Detroit 6-5 210 20
30 LHP Danny Hultzen Seattle 6-3 200 22
31 RHP Jarrod Parker Oakland 6-1 195 23
32 RHP Casey Kelly San Diego 6-3 195 22
33 RHP A.J. Cole Oakland 6-4 180 20
34 OF Mason Williams N.Y. Yankees 6-0 150 20
35 SS Francisco Lindor Cleveland 5-11 175 18
36 1B Anthony Rizzo Chicago Cubs 6-3 220 22
37 3B Nick Castellanos Detroit 6-4 195 19
38 RHP Matt Harvey N.Y. Mets 6-4 210 22
39 RHP Wily Peralta Milwaukee 6-4 240 22
40 OF Rymer Liriano San Diego 6-0 211 20
41 RHP Zach Lee L.A. Dodgers 6-4 190 20
42 RHP Drew Hutchison Toronto 6-2 165 21
43 3B Cheslor Cuthbert Kansas City 6-1 190 19
44 SS Jean Segura L.A. Angels 5-11 160 21
45 LHP Drew Pomeranz Colorado 6-5 230 23
46 1B/LF Jonathan Singleton Houston 6-2 215 20
47 OF Jake Marisnick Toronto 6-4 200 20
48 OF Christian Yelich Miami 6-4 189 20
49 RHP Joe Ross San Diego 6-3 185 18
50 OF Eddie Rosario Minnesota 6-0 170 20
51 LHP James Paxton Seattle 6-4 220 23
52 LHP Mike Montgomery Kansas City 6-4 185 22
53 OF Oscar Taveras St. Louis 6-2 180 19
54 RHP Daniel Corcino Cincinnati 5-11 165 21
55 C Gary Sanchez N.Y. Yankees 6-2 220 19
56 3B Jonathan Schoop Baltimore 6-1 187 20
57 SS Nick Franklin Seattle 6-1 175 20
58 RHP Taylor Jungmann Milwaukee 6-6 220 22
59 OF Anthony Gose Toronto 6-1 190 21
60 OF George Springer Houston 6-3 205 22
61 RHP Allen Webster L.A. Dodgers 6-3 185 22
62 SS Xander Bogaerts Boston 6-3 185 19
63 RHP Chris Archer Tampa Bay 6-3 185 23
64 SS Billy Hamilton Cincinnati 6-1 160 21
65 C Yasmani Grandal San Diego 6-2 205 23
66 3B Zack Cox St. Louis 6-0 215 22
67 OF Josh Bell Pittsburgh 6-4 195 19
68 CF Gary Brown San Francisco 6-1 190 23
69 1B Yonder Alonso San Diego 6-2 240 24
70 RHP Garrett Richards L.A. Angels 6-3 215 23
71 RHP Jake Odorizzi Kansas City 6-2 175 21
72 OF Starling Marte Pittsburgh 6-1 170 23
73 RHP Sonny Gray Oakland 5-11 200 22
74 RHP Tyrell Jenkins St. Louis 6-4 180 19
75 3B Mike Olt Texas 6-2 210 23
76 RHP Trevor May Philadelphia 6-5 215 22
77 OF Michael Choice Oakland 6-0 215 22
78 RHP Jarred Cosart Houston 6-3 180 21
79 RHP Nate Eovaldi L.A. Dodgers 6-3 195 21
80 OF Aaron Hicks Minnesota 6-2 185 22
81 RHP John Hellweg L.A. Angels 6-9 210 23
82 3B Matt Davidson Arizona 6-3 225 20
83 RHP Dellin Betances N.Y. Yankees 6-8 260 23
84 LHP Enny Romero Tampa Bay 6-3 165 21
85 OF Oswaldo Arcia Minnesota 6-0 210 20
86 OF Robbie Grossman Pittsburgh 6-1 190 22
87 OF Mikie Mahtook Tampa Bay 6-1 200 22
88 RHP Taylor Guerrieri Tampa Bay 6-3 195 19
89 CF Brett Jackson Chicago Cubs 6-2 210 23
90 3B Jedd Gyorko San Diego 5-10 195 23
91 RHP Chad Bettis Colorado 6-1 195 22
92 RHP Jordan Swagerty St. Louis 6-2 175 22
93 C Derek Norris Oakland 6-0 210 22
94 C Christian Bethancourt Atlanta 6-2 190 20
95 SS Javier Baez Chicago Cubs 6-0 180 19
96 RHP Aaron Sanchez Toronto 6-4 190 19
97 RHP Addison Reed Chicago White Sox 6-4 215 23
98 RHP Randall Delgado Atlanta 6-3 200 22
99 RHP Neil Ramirez Texas 6-3 185 22
100 C Blake Swihart Boston 6-1 175 19
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby MasterX1918 » Thu Feb 09, 2012 2:43 pm

-he seems low on Teheran, I think his ceiling is much higher than his teammate Vizcaino's and aside from Moore he's more polished and proven than all of those starters ranked ahead of him.

-highest i've ever seen D'Arnaud ranked, ahead of Montero and Mesoraco is ridiculous

-Bauer below Bradley is strange, Bauer projects to be better and figures to reach the bigs much sooner.

-Hak-Ju Lee is crazy high, he doesn't deserve to be that far ahead of Hamilton and Franklin

-everything else looks solid
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Re: Cafe consensus Top 50 for 2012?

Postby PlayingWithFire » Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:22 pm

I think Bradley might have a higher ceiling than Bauer... I prefer Bauer because he's much closer, but Bradley's no slouch either.
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