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Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby kab21 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:14 am

SpecialFNK wrote:
personally I don't think Joe Carter is "overrated". he did his job, which was to drive in runs. 16 seasons, 10 season with 100+ RBI, plus another season which he finished at 98.
I wouldn't consider him a Hall Of Fame player, but he still did his job well.


He had a .771 OPS as a corner OF/DH in the offensive era. He finished his career with a 105 OPS+ and the fact that he made 5 AS games and placed in the top 10 of MVP voting 4 times makes him overrated.
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:51 am

He is definitely over-rated, but his current popularity is based mostly on his personality and the fact that he was the last player to touch the ball in both of Toronto's back to back World Series clinching wins. And the RBI... I remember it being a big deal when he would get to 100 seemingly every year. Meanwhile John Olerud would put up a 400 OBA every season but it wasn't as big of a deal. Why did we ever let him go??
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:21 am

Skin Blues wrote:He is definitely over-rated, but his current popularity is based mostly on his personality and the fact that he was the last player to touch the ball in both of Toronto's back to back World Series clinching wins. And the RBI... I remember it being a big deal when he would get to 100 seemingly every year. Meanwhile John Olerud would put up a 400 OBA every season but it wasn't as big of a deal. Why did we ever let him go??

Loved Ole and his special ed fielding helmet when he was a Met. ;-D
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby SpecialFNK » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:23 am

what was Joe Carter's job? what was his main objective? I would say his job was to drive in runs, and he was good at that.
I don't think he was a great player at all, but he was good. I personally don't rate him high, so to me isn't "over"rated.
he was never that good at AVG/OBP, so naturally he wont have a good OPS. he never walked much, especially in his time with Cleveland.
for his career he had .259 AVG. but maybe he was also someone who had bad luck? he had career .265 BABIP.
he's not a player I would consider a MVP caliber player, but he was someone who was a productive hitter for driving in runs.
interesting stat. according to baseball-reference all time he is 17th in sacrifice flies, including 2 seasons where he was 1st.
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby MasterX1918 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:44 am

Tavish wrote:
MasterX1918 wrote:I feel like moments of glory can make a player great, or greater than others at least. Joe Carter's walk off homerun to win the Jays the 93 world series immediately moves him up a couple slots on my list regardless of any statistical flaws. There's certain things statistics can't take into account.

Those moments make them more memorable, not really greater. Some of the things that Bo Jackson did on a baseball field will make him a legend, but he never really reached the level of being a great player. Joe Carter takes that same concept and pushes it even further. He had some moments that will be memorable forever and he had some statistics that made him seem like a great player. But he really wasn't as good as people will remember him nor as good as those stats made him look.

I'm not saying these moment immediately make a player great, but I think they definitely separate men from boys. Looking at war ray Durham has a higher career war than bill mazeroski and I wouldnt call Durham a greater player. Carter is 925th all time in war, for conparison that's lower than Mark McLemores war and below Brandon Inge ob the "all time greatest players" list.
Last edited by MasterX1918 on Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby kab21 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:12 am

SpecialFNK wrote:what was Joe Carter's job? what was his main objective? I would say his job was to drive in runs, and he was good at that.
I don't think he was a great player at all, but he was good. I personally don't rate him high, so to me isn't "over"rated.
he was never that good at AVG/OBP, so naturally he wont have a good OPS. he never walked much, especially in his time with Cleveland.
for his career he had .259 AVG. but maybe he was also someone who had bad luck? he had career .265 BABIP.
he's not a player I would consider a MVP caliber player, but he was someone who was a productive hitter for driving in runs.
interesting stat. according to baseball-reference all time he is 17th in sacrifice flies, including 2 seasons where he was 1st.


Hitters don't have bad luck for 8000 AB's. Hitters actually have some control over their BAPIP and he was the type of hitter that produced low BAPIP's. avg/obp are very important if you want to have a good offense so I don't understand how you dismiss them. Carter batted 3rd or 4th most of his career so I would consider it pretty important to be on base. And if a player is so one dimensional that he can only drive in runs then he really isn't that valuable.
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby bigh0rt » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:18 am

SpecialFNK wrote:what was Joe Carter's job? what was his main objective? I would say his job was to drive in runs, and he was good at that.

It's easy to drive in runs when every time you come to bat there's men on base waiting to be driven in. It has nothing to do with your ability to hit. You stick any schmuck in the right scenario and he'll drive in 100 RBI and at the same time hitting like crap.
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby SpecialFNK » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:37 am

the object of the game is still to score more runs than the other team and win games.
if Carter wasn't that valuable how did he play so often? he basically had consistent playing time his entire career. he deserves credit for being able to drive in runs as many times as he did as often as he did consistently through his career despite his AVG.

when Carter came to bat with runners in scoring position, he was good at driving those runners to score.
RISP- 1482 G/ 2017 AB - .271/.342/.478/.820/

you could probably break down every player in the HOF for how often they came to bat with runners on base and were able to drive them in.
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby kab21 » Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:44 am

He played a lot because he wasn't bad and managers didn't understand that there was more to hitting than hitting HR's?
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Re: Dante Bichette is the most overrated player of all time

Postby thedude » Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:08 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:
if Carter wasn't that valuable how did he play so often? he basically had consistent playing time his entire career.


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