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Internet Censorship Bill

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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby John Kramer » Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:12 pm

Tavish wrote:
John Kramer wrote:
Tavish wrote:Exactly. This is the absolute best proof that SOPA / PIPA is completely unnecessary. Due process might be inconvenient for copyright holders, but it definitely isn't something that should be tossed aside on a whim.


Inconvenient? Someone uploads a movie prior to the theatrical release which allows everyone to download and watch it before it releases, which costs the studio no telling how many millions of dollars. And the studio is just supposed to shrug at the "inconvenience" of not being able to get it stopped?

They can get it stopped, the megaupload takedown shows exactly that. I won't feel bad for them in the slightest that they can't strip due process away from those they are accusing.


Standing by and watching illegal activity and doing nothing about it, but then shutting it down after the damage is done, isn't considered a "win" in any way.
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby Tavish » Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:41 pm

John Kramer wrote:Standing by and watching illegal activity and doing nothing about it, but then shutting it down after the damage is done, isn't considered a "win" in any way.

Unless the studio or whomever has some sort of precog ability, shutting down the site via a SOPA type method is still a reactive "after-the-fact" method of controlling the damage. There is not a single way possible to stop the upload from ever happening. Once the upload happens, the damage is done whether it takes 24 hours or 24 days to shut the host site down.
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby John Kramer » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:47 pm

Tavish wrote:Unless the studio or whomever has some sort of precog ability, shutting down the site via a SOPA type method is still a reactive "after-the-fact" method of controlling the damage. There is not a single way possible to stop the upload from ever happening. Once the upload happens, the damage is done whether it takes 24 hours or 24 days to shut the host site down.


So everyone downloads it the instant it gets uploaded. It isn't downloaded for days, weeks, months, even years in this case, after the initial upload. Which means there's no reason to shut it down as quickly as possible.

Got it.
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby Tavish » Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:58 pm

John Kramer wrote:
Tavish wrote:Unless the studio or whomever has some sort of precog ability, shutting down the site via a SOPA type method is still a reactive "after-the-fact" method of controlling the damage. There is not a single way possible to stop the upload from ever happening. Once the upload happens, the damage is done whether it takes 24 hours or 24 days to shut the host site down.


So everyone downloads it the instant it gets uploaded. It isn't downloaded for days, weeks, months, even years in this case, after the initial upload. Which means there's no reason to shut it down as quickly as possible.

Got it.

I see your sarcasm and raise you some incredulity. Are you really that naive about how file sharing and the internet in general works?
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby John Kramer » Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:45 pm

Tavish wrote:I see your sarcasm and raise you some incredulity. Are you really that naive about how file sharing and the internet in general works?


Not at all, but I don't subscribe to the theory that if "everyone" is doing something illegal, that there's no point in enforcing the law or finding ways to prevent the law from being broken in the first place. I also don't subscribe to the theory that enforcing laws, such as copyright laws, is impossible in the internet. Perfect protection and zero cases of copyright theft? Of course not, but it can certainly be enforced a whole lot better than it currently is. And last, I don't subscribe to the made up theories about what people mistakenly think their rights are, or the rights they invent out of thin air. There is no "due process" as you mentioned earlier when it comes to stopping someone in the middle of an illegal act. They can have all the "due process" you like once the illegal act has been stopped.
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby Urban Cohorts » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:56 am

John Kramer wrote:Inconvenient? Someone uploads a movie prior to the theatrical release which allows everyone to download and watch it before it releases, which costs the studio no telling how many millions of dollars. And the studio is just supposed to shrug at the "inconvenience" of not being able to get it stopped?


Yes, the studio should just shrug it off. Using your example (movies), I don't care how much money the studio loses because these studios are making a killing in profits for what they actually produce. They pay these stars vast sums of money and then pawn off huge prices to movie theaters, which in turn under-staff their companies and charge me an arm and a leg to go see a movie. And with this economy, why on earth would I want to pay ~$20 at a theater, when I can view the same movie for free on the internet? The movie producers should cut salary on actors for the benefit of the consumer. If they did that, more people would go to the theaters and thus less people would "illegally" download the movie.

At least professional sports are televised- if you don't want to fork out the money to go to the game and eat then simply watch the games on TV.
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby John Kramer » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:16 am

Urban Cohorts wrote:Yes, the studio should just shrug it off. Using your example (movies), I don't care how much money the studio loses because these studios are making a killing in profits for what they actually produce. They pay these stars vast sums of money and then pawn off huge prices to movie theaters, which in turn under-staff their companies and charge me an arm and a leg to go see a movie. And with this economy, why on earth would I want to pay ~$20 at a theater, when I can view the same movie for free on the internet? The movie producers should cut salary on actors for the benefit of the consumer. If they did that, more people would go to the theaters and thus less people would "illegally" download the movie.

At least professional sports are televised- if you don't want to fork out the money to go to the game and eat then simply watch the games on TV.


Was wondering how long it would take for someone to say it was ok to steal from the rich. By that logic, I can simply steal whatever I want from an Apple store and always fill my tank with gas at Exxon and drive off without paying for it. How did you put it... they should just shrug it off. Who cares that stealing is illegal and just flat out wrong, it's their fault because they charge so much, right? It isn't the criminal's fault they chose/choose to steal, this is the land of excuses now, so it has to be someone else's fault. You know, someone making $20K per year is rich compared to someone on welfare, so does the "it's ok to steal from the rich" still apply in that situation, or is it only your definition of rich that it is ok to steal from?
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby bigh0rt » Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:55 am

Madison, is that you?
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby Lofunzo » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:58 pm

bigh0rt wrote:Madison, is that you?


Screw you. I'm bored and did a search and stumbled upon the Norway thread. I want those 20 minutes back. :-t
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Re: Internet Censorship Bill

Postby GreenMtn! » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:25 pm

John Kramer wrote:Was wondering how long it would take for someone to say it was ok to steal from the rich. By that logic, I can simply steal whatever I want from an Apple store and always fill my tank with gas at Exxon and drive off without paying for it. How did you put it... they should just shrug it off. Who cares that stealing is illegal and just flat out wrong, it's their fault because they charge so much, right? It isn't the criminal's fault they chose/choose to steal, this is the land of excuses now, so it has to be someone else's fault. You know, someone making $20K per year is rich compared to someone on welfare, so does the "it's ok to steal from the rich" still apply in that situation, or is it only your definition of rich that it is ok to steal from?


Pirating a movie isn't theft. It's copyright infringement. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that they are significantly different.
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