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VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby Philliebuster » Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:02 am

No love for the other speedier Weeks? He should be hittin these here rankins...That .300 avg, sbs and runs will be nice spread over 600 abs. Huge power showing towards end of 2011 as well. Skys the limit....
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby Skin Blues » Sun Oct 02, 2011 9:44 am

I assume most don't think Jemile is for real. The only good showing he's had in the minors was 184 at-bats as a 24 year old in the PCL. And he didn't steal very often, or with much success. He hit for a surprisingly good average this year in the majors, but still wasn't any good at stealing bases, which is where almost all of his potential value lies. That stats say he's due for a big regression. I'm not sure what scouts say, but I can't imagine it would make me want to take a chance on him next year considering the people drafting based on that .300 average and 22 SBs in a partial season.
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby kab21 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 10:29 am

Skin Blues wrote:I assume most don't think Jemile is for real. The only good showing he's had in the minors was 184 at-bats as a 24 year old in the PCL. And he didn't steal very often, or with much success. He hit for a surprisingly good average this year in the majors, but still wasn't any good at stealing bases, which is where almost all of his potential value lies. That stats say he's due for a big regression. I'm not sure what scouts say, but I can't imagine it would make me want to take a chance on him next year considering the people drafting based on that .300 average and 22 SBs in a partial season.


It's kind of difficult to do a statistical analysis for Jemile's MiLB career. He spent most of it getting injured or recovering from injury. But he's not a guy that really excites me unless I'm looking for a 2B/MI in rds 15-20. low power, not an elite SB guy and injury risk. He's like a Coco Crisp at 2B. Nice to have (I had him on 2 teams) but nothing to get excited about.

Nobody has mentioned the Posey/Mauer rankings yet? I'm not taking either of these guys that high. I try not to miss in the first 10 rds and then draft upside after that. I'll take McCann, Santana, Napoli or VMart 10 times out of 10 over them. And I'll probably target a guy like MMontero, Wieters or Avila in rds 8-12.
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby MasterX1918 » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:14 pm

being a guy who got burned by both players I have to agree but i'm not sure if that fact should hurt their draft stock since they both carry tremendous upside. I too would rather have Montero or Matt Wieters, i'm not sure about Avila though.
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby TribeIn2012 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:16 pm

Starting Pitcher Rankings:
1 Justin Verlander, DET
2 Roy Halladay, PHI
3 Clayton Kershaw, LAD
4 Cliff Lee, PHI
5 Felix Hernandez, SEA
6 Jered Weaver, LAA
7 CC Sabathia, NYY
8 Tim Lincecum, SF
9 David Price, TB
10 Zack Greinke, MIL
11 Dan Haren, LAA
12 Yovani Gallardo, MIL
13 Cole Hamels, PHI
14 Jon Lester, BOS
15 James Shields, TB
16 Matt Garza, CHC
17 Matt Cain, SF
18 Stephen Strasubrg, WAS
19 Chris Carpenter, STL
20 Josh Beckett, BOS
21 Ubaldo Jiminez, CLE
22 C.J. Wilson, TEX
23 Rickey Romero, TOR
24 Ian Kennedy, ARZ
25 Michael Pineda, SEA
26 Brandon Morrow, TOR
27 Anibal Sanchez, FLA
28 Gio Gonzalez, OAK
29 Madison Bumgarner, SF
30 Mat Latos, SD
31 Tim Hudson, ATL
32 Ervin Santana, LAA
33 Justin Masterson, CLE
34 Jeremy Hellickson, TB
35 Bud Norris, HOU
36 Max Sherzer, DET
37 Brandon Beachy, ATL
38 Daniel Hudson, ARZ
39 Wandy Rodriguez, HOU
40 Shaun Marcum, MIL
41 Tommy Hanson, ATL
42 Scott Baker, MIN
43 Matt Moore, TB
44 Johnny Cueto, CIN
45 Alexi Ogando, TEX
46 Roy Oswalt, PHI
47 Javier Vazquez, FLA
48 Hiroki Kuroda, LAD
49 Derrick Holland, TEX
50 Chad Billingsley, LAD
51 Rickey Nolasco, FLA
52 Johnathon Sanchez, SF
53 Jake Peavy, SD
54 Jair Jurrjens, ATL
55 Ted Lilly, LAD
56 Jamie Garcia, STL
57 Corey Luebke, SD
58 Gavin Floyd, CWS
59 Jhoulys Chacin, COL
60 Clay Bucholtz, BOS
61 Jeff Neimann, TB
62 Edwin Jackson, STL
63 Drew Pomeranz, COL
64 Trevor Cahill, OAK
65 Jordan Zimmerman, WAS
66 Doug Fister, DET
67 John Danks, CWS
68 Randy Wolf, MIL
69 Brandon McCarthy, OAK
70 Ivan Nova, NYY
71 Brett Anderson, OAK
72 Vance Worely, PHI
73 Ryan Dempster, CHC
74 Erik Bedard, BOS
75 Mark Beuhrle, CWS
76 Ryan Vogelsong, SF
77 A.J. Burnett, NYY
78 Colby Lewis, TEX
79 Aaron Harrang, SD
80 Fransisco Liriano, MIN
81 Fausto Carmona, CLE
82 Carlos Zambrano, CHC
83 Homer Bailey, CIN
84 Brett Myers, HOU
85 Wade Davis, TB
86 Edison Volquez, CIN
87 Josh Tomlin, CLE
88 Phil Hughes, NYY
89 Jorge De La Rosa, COL
90 Dallas Braden, OAK

Relief Pitchers:
1 Craig Kimbrel, ATL
2 Mariano Rivera, NYY
3 Jose Valverde, DET
4 Jonathon Papelbon, BOS
5 John Axford, MIL
6 J.J. Putz, ARZ
7 Heath Bell, SD
8 Drew Storen, WAS
9 Neftali Feliz, TEX
10 Carlos Marmol, CHC
11 Joel Hanrahan, PIT
12 Brian Wilson, SF
13 Andrew Bailey, OAK
14 Fransisco Cordero, CIN
15 Joakim Soria, KC
16 Chris Perez, CLE
17 Ryan Madson, PHI
18 Joe Nathan, MIN
19 Brandon League, SEA
20 Jordan Walden, LAA
21 Huston Street, COL
22 Kyle Farnsworth, TB
23 Mark Melancon, HOU
24 "Leo Nunez", FLA
25 Sergio Santos, CWS
26 Fernando Salas, STL
27 Javy Guerra, LAD
28 Frank Fransisco, TOR
29 Fransisco Rodriguez, MIL
30 Chris Sale, CWS
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby TribeIn2012 » Mon Oct 03, 2011 6:16 pm

Starting Pitcher Rankings:
1 Justin Verlander, DET
2 Roy Halladay, PHI
3 Clayton Kershaw, LAD
4 Cliff Lee, PHI
5 Felix Hernandez, SEA
6 Jered Weaver, LAA
7 CC Sabathia, NYY
8 Tim Lincecum, SF
9 David Price, TB
10 Zack Greinke, MIL
11 Dan Haren, LAA
12 Yovani Gallardo, MIL
13 Cole Hamels, PHI
14 Jon Lester, BOS
15 James Shields, TB
16 Matt Garza, CHC
17 Matt Cain, SF
18 Stephen Strasubrg, WAS
19 Chris Carpenter, STL
20 Josh Beckett, BOS
21 Ubaldo Jiminez, CLE
22 C.J. Wilson, TEX
23 Rickey Romero, TOR
24 Ian Kennedy, ARZ
25 Michael Pineda, SEA
26 Brandon Morrow, TOR
27 Anibal Sanchez, FLA
28 Gio Gonzalez, OAK
29 Madison Bumgarner, SF
30 Mat Latos, SD
31 Tim Hudson, ATL
32 Ervin Santana, LAA
33 Justin Masterson, CLE
34 Jeremy Hellickson, TB
35 Bud Norris, HOU
36 Max Sherzer, DET
37 Brandon Beachy, ATL
38 Daniel Hudson, ARZ
39 Wandy Rodriguez, HOU
40 Shaun Marcum, MIL
41 Tommy Hanson, ATL
42 Scott Baker, MIN
43 Matt Moore, TB
44 Johnny Cueto, CIN
45 Alexi Ogando, TEX
46 Roy Oswalt, PHI
47 Javier Vazquez, FLA
48 Hiroki Kuroda, LAD
49 Derrick Holland, TEX
50 Chad Billingsley, LAD
51 Rickey Nolasco, FLA
52 Johnathon Sanchez, SF
53 Jake Peavy, SD
54 Jair Jurrjens, ATL
55 Ted Lilly, LAD
56 Jamie Garcia, STL
57 Corey Luebke, SD
58 Gavin Floyd, CWS
59 Jhoulys Chacin, COL
60 Clay Bucholtz, BOS
61 Jeff Neimann, TB
62 Edwin Jackson, STL
63 Drew Pomeranz, COL
64 Trevor Cahill, OAK
65 Jordan Zimmerman, WAS
66 Doug Fister, DET
67 John Danks, CWS
68 Randy Wolf, MIL
69 Brandon McCarthy, OAK
70 Ivan Nova, NYY
71 Brett Anderson, OAK
72 Vance Worely, PHI
73 Ryan Dempster, CHC
74 Erik Bedard, BOS
75 Mark Beuhrle, CWS
76 Ryan Vogelsong, SF
77 A.J. Burnett, NYY
78 Colby Lewis, TEX
79 Aaron Harrang, SD
80 Fransisco Liriano, MIN
81 Fausto Carmona, CLE
82 Carlos Zambrano, CHC
83 Homer Bailey, CIN
84 Brett Myers, HOU
85 Wade Davis, TB
86 Edison Volquez, CIN
87 Josh Tomlin, CLE
88 Phil Hughes, NYY
89 Jorge De La Rosa, COL
90 Dallas Braden, OAK

Relief Pitchers:
1 Craig Kimbrel, ATL
2 Mariano Rivera, NYY
3 Jose Valverde, DET
4 Jonathon Papelbon, BOS
5 John Axford, MIL
6 J.J. Putz, ARZ
7 Heath Bell, SD
8 Drew Storen, WAS
9 Neftali Feliz, TEX
10 Carlos Marmol, CHC
11 Joel Hanrahan, PIT
12 Brian Wilson, SF
13 Andrew Bailey, OAK
14 Fransisco Cordero, CIN
15 Joakim Soria, KC
16 Chris Perez, CLE
17 Ryan Madson, PHI
18 Joe Nathan, MIN
19 Brandon League, SEA
20 Jordan Walden, LAA
21 Huston Street, COL
22 Kyle Farnsworth, TB
23 Mark Melancon, HOU
24 "Leo Nunez", FLA
25 Sergio Santos, CWS
26 Fernando Salas, STL
27 Javy Guerra, LAD
28 Frank Fransisco, TOR
29 Fransisco Rodriguez, MIL
30 Chris Sale, CWS
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby Grounded Polo » Mon Oct 03, 2011 7:10 pm

I think putting Kimbrel 1st is placing too much stock into last year's numbers and that plagues owners every year. I'd still take the proven commodities like Rivera, Valverde, and now Axford over him without question. I would also take Doc as the #1 SP, he's been a top 10 overall player for like 5 years straight now.
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby Whalewang » Mon Oct 03, 2011 10:28 pm

solid effort. Coming from a NL only standpoint I'll give my humble observations.
No Wainwright?!
Hanson should be above team mate Hudson as Hanson is easily the best fantasy pitcher in ATL.
Norris too high.
Carp is too high.
Jiminez!! WTF--way to high
No Wainwright?!

wow- Brian Wilson gets hurt and he falls off the face of the earth?

well, it's easy to criticize than to create something like this so take my thoughts with a grain of salt. You provided a nice contribution.
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby bayside » Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:34 am

I like your starting pitching rankings much better than your position ranks. good work here!

Just a few things i would change (and not that im right, just personal preference):
--I would take Kershaw and Halladay over Verlander, but those are very clearly the Top 3 SP and you cant go wrong with any of them as the first pitcher off the board.

--I really like Garza where you have him. I think hes primed for a huge year. His K rate was way up this season and if he has even average luck he'll crack the top 20 by the end of next season.

--i would move CJ up right in the Cain/Garza neighborhood, as hes been pretty beastly the past 2 years. If he somehow ends up in the NL I might take him even higher.

--I think Beachy and Hudson are both too low, and expect them to both perform as top 30 pitchers next year. Beachy's K rate is for real. He will approach 200Ks in ~175 innings, and his ERA should be in the 3.4-3.7 range again. He'll be allowed to pitch deeper into games next year, and he has one of the best bullpens in baseball behind him, so he should be good for a healthy number of wins.
Hudson is a good candidate to improve his strikeout rate (he currently has much higher swinging strike rate than you would expect for a guy who has such an unexceptional K%). And hell get his share of wins in AZ as well with that offense behind him adn the weak teams he faces so often.

--If Hanson is declared 100% healthy by the end of ST i would move him way up the list as well, but at this point his ranking is perfectly fine. Shoulder injuries are no joke.

--I would take Bumgarner ahead of all of Morrow, Beckett, Carpenter, Ubaldo, Sanchez, and Gio but i have to admit i am a huge Giants fan so I see pitch all the time. and actually i'd slide that entire trio of Carp/Becket/Ubaldo down 6-10 slots

--I think Moore has the potential to move the farthest up your list, as he may have an elite strikeout rate, has a great defense behind in a good pitchers park, and should get at laast 180 innings next year. Honestly the AL east thing doesnt scare me much. The only question is whether or not the TB front office is cheap (stupid) enough to keep him in AAA for the first 2 months.

--JZimm should be unleashed for a full workload next season and he was pretty dominant for a long stretch near the end of the year. His K's were a little disappointing but Id expect that to improve, and have him somewhere inside the top 45

again, most of these are pretty minor squabbles, good job
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Re: VERY EARLY 2012 Rankings

Postby wrveres » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:27 am

Would it be fair to assume you don't use ERA or WHIP in your leagues?
TribeIn2012 wrote:Starting Pitcher Rankings:
12 Yovani Gallardo, MIL
21 Ubaldo Jiminez, CLE
26 Brandon Morrow, TOR
27 Anibal Sanchez, FLA
35 Bud Norris, HOU
36 Max Sherzer, DET
39 Wandy Rodriguez, HOU


40 Shaun Marcum, MIL
41 Tommy Hanson, ATL
42 Scott Baker, MIN
48 Hiroki Kuroda, LAD
57 Corey Luebke, SD
65 Jordan Zimmerman, WAS
66 Doug Fister, DET
71 Brett Anderson, OAK
76 Ryan Vogelsong, SF


Also ..
15 James Shields, TB
16 Matt Garza, CHC
glad to see you're buying into those career years
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