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Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trades

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Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trades

Postby Bwanna » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:25 pm

Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trades.

Friday Afternoon Fantasy Baseball Rant About Vetos - Eno Sarris
http://www.rotohardball.com/2011/7/22/2 ... bout-vetos

;D

[cross-posted to Commish forum, and I don't care.]
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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby J35J » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:08 pm

;-D
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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby thedude » Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:47 pm

My answer is almost always -- "Don't veto." Unless there are visible signs of collusion -- the two owners know each other in real life, and one is at the bottom of the table, and the one taking all the best players is at the top of the league -- the veto is not an option I take. Live and let lose is my philosophy. Let others make their own mistakes


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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby jackie hayes » Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:33 am

"Oh okay. So you are the arbiter of fairness for the whole league?" Followed by, "Admittedly, this is where the line is. You're in a money league and someone trades Jeff Karstens for Zack Greinke." So? You're not the arbiter of fairness, remember. Jeff Karstens has a great era, over more than 100 ip. Noone who's actually opposed to the veto would veto that trade, no matter how stupid it is.

If you're against the veto, you should always, always, always be against the veto. No exceptions. It's ridiculous to think that nobody can be the "arbiter of fairness" but somehow collusion is clear as day.
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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:19 am

I'm in a strange situation in terms of vetoing trades now, actually. In one league I commish, the guy at the bottom announced that all players are on the trading block, so I offered Dunn/Liriano for Rajai/Latos. Accepted. Cool. But he also accepts trades from other people like Bedard for MCab straight up and Pagan for Weaver straight up. Four other trades that are obviously bullcrap but mine was made with legitimate intentions. Of course I can't veto all other trades and let mine through because then I look like a douche, even though it's a legit and fair trade.

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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:57 am

Short-sighted article.
Example:
But Joey Votto and Chris Carpenter for Jordan Zimmermann, Erik Bedard, Bobby Parnell and Francisco Rodriguez is just a bad trade.

Really?
Well, it's not.
If I'm in roto league where I already have a huge lead in hitting, and can replace some of Votto's production, so my team won't feel the difference, but Holds is the cat where I gain a lot with a little improvement, and my trade partner could take points away from my closest competitors with Votto in his lineup, than it's a huge trade for me.

But Im goin to veto this trade every time in a H2H league, if the team that trades Votto, has no chance to make the playoffs, and the other will be in for sure.


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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby MashinSpuds » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:30 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:I'm in a strange situation in terms of vetoing trades now, actually. In one league I commish, the guy at the bottom announced that all players are on the trading block, so I offered Dunn/Liriano for Rajai/Latos. Accepted. Cool. But he also accepts trades from other people like Bedard for MCab straight up and Pagan for Weaver straight up. Four other trades that are obviously bullcrap but mine was made with legitimate intentions. Of course I can't veto all other trades and let mine through because then I look like a douche, even though it's a legit and fair trade.

Help please WHIR!

Sounds like the guy should get a warning and/or the boot. Even though it's fantasy baseball and it's in fun as well as competition, the phrase "maintaining the integrity of the league" should be at the forefront in your case. If you can't trust the guy to make sound trades without causing major ramifications of the league standings based on his whimsical carelessness, then either he needs to know your stance regarding integrity (if you stand by one) or he needs to consider finding another league. It's unacceptable and will likely cause bad vibes from others.

In the league I commish we have had similar issues with trade vetoes. If a manager was trading like the guy you mentioned he would be found and beaten by a few of the more rabid members of the league.
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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby Bwanna » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:01 pm

Leagues that use a veto system by the commish or votes will always have problems.

If you have a veto system in place to attempt to force bad owners to behave for the small chance it happens, you as the commish will end up doing three things - watching the bad owners continue to misbehave, watching your good owners leave, and watching your league die. You'll also be required to expend more energy while it all happens.

Allowing owners to hang themselves can cause some turmoil during the first few years of a league. It's more difficult in a dynasty/keeper league, and less so in a redraft because of a new owner's ability to redraft, but it's worth it in long run.

As an aside, the absolute best thing you can do to prevent this stuff is to recruit well, and waste no time booting inactive managers.
[reg season/playoffs]
LFoD '08 [1st/3rd], '10 [1st/3rd], '11 [1st/2nd], '12 [1st/1st]
123Innings '08 [1st/1st], '09 [1st/3rd], '10 [1st/4th], '12 [4th/2nd]
BRAL '09 2nd, '10 1st
Cool 3.0 '08 1st
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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby wrveres » Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:29 pm

Bwanna wrote:the absolute best thing you can do to prevent this stuff is to recruit well, and waste no time booting inactive managers.
thats the key.

in a couple of my leagues, i am thinking of getting away from the veto all together. once a trade is accepted, it goes through that day. with a league full of solid managers, the veto tool becomes useless.
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Re: Great article about the stupidity of vetoing stupid trad

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:01 pm

MashinSpuds wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I'm in a strange situation in terms of vetoing trades now, actually. In one league I commish, the guy at the bottom announced that all players are on the trading block, so I offered Dunn/Liriano for Rajai/Latos. Accepted. Cool. But he also accepts trades from other people like Bedard for MCab straight up and Pagan for Weaver straight up. Four other trades that are obviously bullcrap but mine was made with legitimate intentions. Of course I can't veto all other trades and let mine through because then I look like a douche, even though it's a legit and fair trade.

Help please WHIR!

Sounds like the guy should get a warning and/or the boot. Even though it's fantasy baseball and it's in fun as well as competition, the phrase "maintaining the integrity of the league" should be at the forefront in your case. If you can't trust the guy to make sound trades without causing major ramifications of the league standings based on his whimsical carelessness, then either he needs to know your stance regarding integrity (if you stand by one) or he needs to consider finding another league. It's unacceptable and will likely cause bad vibes from others.

In the league I commish we have had similar issues with trade vetoes. If a manager was trading like the guy you mentioned he would be found and beaten by a few of the more rabid members of the league.

Oh yeah I know lol. It's just that I offered a decently fair trade and it got accepted, but I look like a douche for only allowing my own trade and not anyone else's.
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Rocinante2: you know
Rocinante2: its easy to dismiss the orioles as a bad team
ofanrex: go on
Rocinante2: i'm done
Rocinante2: lmao

Play Brushback Baseball! (we need more people)
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