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Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:02 pm

I would agree with Madison under the stipulation that the only time the death penalty is doled out is when there is zero doubt whatsoever that the person is guilty. Such has clear video evidence or multiple credible eyewitnesses. If someone goes on a shooting spree and is caught in the act, then why glorify it with a huge trial and tons of media attention? That's what the sickos who do this stuff want. They want attention and they want their story to be told. Sure, give him the a small "trial" with no media access but forgo the whole bs appeals process, take him out back, and put a bullet in his head. Saves a ton of money and is the best deterrent we have.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Madison » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:16 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:Madison, you would love Saudi Arabia. Their justice system is basically exactly what you want. They just base it on a different religion than you want.

The thought that the problem with our capital punishment process is that it isn't done fast enough is just barbaric.

That you repeatedly side ascribe inerrant qualities to the police and justice system is hilariously naive. But it's also a bit depressing that you just do not care about the risk of wrongful arrests, wrongful executions and other abuses of power.


I'm in favor of quick and meaningful punishment. Remember way back ('93 I think?) when the kid was going to get caned in Singapore for spray painting cars (vandalism)? I was all for that. ;-D

Sad that you don't have a better argument other than quickly killing murderers is "barbaric".

What's naive about understanding that to make an omelet you're going to break some eggs? Sure, an innocent person may be put to death, but that does not mean we shouldn't move forward with making the judicial system light years faster. People die in all types of ways and we don't ban or quit doing whatever it is or was. Naive is thinking that every life is precious and should be saved (which of course is impossible), no matter the cost to the rest of the world.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:23 pm

Madison wrote:
Skin Blues wrote:You guys already have the worst crime rates and most death penalties doled out amongst first world countries, and your proposed solution is to kill more people. I assume by "done properly" you mean "done a lot more frequently and with reduced rights to those accused in the name of expediency". It's no wonder you guys are where you're at in terms of violence.... you think the solution is more violence and more guns. Good luck with that.


Yes, by "done properly" I mean done a whole lot faster. Punishing someone long after the fact doesn't deter anything or prevent future criminals from being criminals. Swift and immediate punishment is the way to go, but we've got too many people that cannot stomach what it takes in order to have a peaceful civilized society. That means quickly taking out the trash when needed.

Neato Torpedo wrote:I'll buy the "removing him from society" argument. But when it's about "justice for the families", then it becomes vengeance and then it scares me.

There's a 99% chance that this guy will be dangerous to society forever but Norway has the resources to attempt to reform him. If this was America's prison system, the chances would be functionally zero. I would not let American murderers live with me (except Tookie of course) because there's no system in place to ascertain their sanity, but there's probably convicted murderers from Scandinavia that I would let live with me. Call me crazy, but the fact of the matter is that they wouldn't let them out until they were sure that they were reformed. It's not like they serve a 21 year sentence and are set free no matter what; they stay in until they are deemed safe, and then they are set free to a life that deters them from approaching the circumstances they had when they committed the original crime.


I rarely talk about justice for the families. I'd sooner talk about fairness, and eye for an eye, or treating them the way they treated others. Most importantly it is about getting the murderer out of society permanently so as to guarantee that person will never hurt another innocent person and also to send a message to would-be criminals that if you kill someone, you will die.

I do apologize, but I'll just call you naive. There's no way I'd let anyone, and I do mean anyone on the face of this Earth convince me that a convicted murderer has been reformed and now poses no threat. People's lives are at stake and I will not endanger those I care about most.

Personally I'd rather die painlessly today than spend my next 50 years getting raped daily by 300 pound skinheads, but maybe that's just me.

Like I said, the American sense of "reformed" is different from the Scandinavian sense of "reformed". If you were brought up there then you would probably think differently. The Oslo terrorist is a special case and I most likely wouldn't let that psycho live with me, but then again that won't be a problem because people like him usually end up being locked up forever.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Curtis Pride » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:37 pm

Madison wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:Madison, you would love Saudi Arabia. Their justice system is basically exactly what you want. They just base it on a different religion than you want.

The thought that the problem with our capital punishment process is that it isn't done fast enough is just barbaric.

That you repeatedly side ascribe inerrant qualities to the police and justice system is hilariously naive. But it's also a bit depressing that you just do not care about the risk of wrongful arrests, wrongful executions and other abuses of power.


I'm in favor of quick and meaningful punishment. Remember way back ('93 I think?) when the kid was going to get caned in Singapore for spray painting cars (vandalism)? I was all for that. ;-D

Sad that you don't have a better argument other than quickly killing murderers is "barbaric".

What's naive about understanding that to make an omelet you're going to break some eggs? Sure, an innocent person may be put to death, but that does not mean we shouldn't move forward with making the judicial system light years faster. People die in all types of ways and we don't ban or quit doing whatever it is or was. Naive is thinking that every life is precious and should be saved (which of course is impossible), no matter the cost to the rest of the world.


Similar to the question posed to me that my opinion would be different if my sister were raped, I'm sure you wouldn't be so blase about one of your loved ones getting wrongfully executed.

Your final sentence would have some validity if executing murders protected anyone from anything. It serves absolutely no purpose except blind vengeance. The death penalty does not act as a deterrent and it does not save money. There is absolutely no benefit plus some innocent "broken eggs" get killed in the process. Given that, still supporting the death penalty because of some biblical premise of retribution from the bronze age is barbaric.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:41 pm

Speaking of biblical premises...thou shalt not kill. Ain't no asterisk. Checkmate.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby RedHopeful » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:43 pm

Madison wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:Madison, you would love Saudi Arabia. Their justice system is basically exactly what you want. They just base it on a different religion than you want.

The thought that the problem with our capital punishment process is that it isn't done fast enough is just barbaric.

That you repeatedly side ascribe inerrant qualities to the police and justice system is hilariously naive. But it's also a bit depressing that you just do not care about the risk of wrongful arrests, wrongful executions and other abuses of power.


I'm in favor of quick and meaningful punishment. Remember way back ('93 I think?) when the kid was going to get caned in Singapore for spray painting cars (vandalism)? I was all for that. ;-D

Sad that you don't have a better argument other than quickly killing murderers is "barbaric".

What's naive about understanding that to make an omelet you're going to break some eggs? Sure, an innocent person may be put to death, but that does not mean we shouldn't move forward with making the judicial system light years faster. People die in all types of ways and we don't ban or quit doing whatever it is or was. Naive is thinking that every life is precious and should be saved (which of course is impossible), no matter the cost to the rest of the world.

I do remember the caning as I was in Australia at the time and the public there was semi-mortified. Obviously Mad, you don't have a problem with cruel and unusual punishment. ;-7

Also, I'm curious as to what you think needs to be done to improve the speed of the judicial system. Are you more in favor of getting rid of the frivilous lawsuits and such to reduce the load on the system? Or are you more in favor of moving 'apparent cases' through more quickly by reducing search/discovery and perhaps even trial by jury?

Either way, I'm with CP that you have to at least attempt to give each person their due process when it comes to judgements and punishments. To err is human...
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Madison » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:00 am

Curtis Pride wrote:Similar to the question posed to me that my opinion would be different if my sister were raped, I'm sure you wouldn't be so blase about one of your loved ones getting wrongfully executed.

Your final sentence would have some validity if executing murders protected anyone from anything. It serves absolutely no purpose except blind vengeance. The death penalty does not act as a deterrent and it does not save money. There is absolutely no benefit plus some innocent "broken eggs" get killed in the process. Given that, still supporting the death penalty because of some biblical premise of retribution from the bronze age is barbaric.


Well, you would be wrong. See, where I come from, we are willing to die for what is best for this country. Mostly that is due to practically the entire family being in the military and risking their lives to ensure the freedoms we all enjoy. I would gladly walk out back behind the courtroom and take a bullet to the brain if found guilty of murder, because it sends a clear message to would-be murderers that if you kill someone, you will die. Can you say the same? Would you give your life for the freedoms we enjoy, or are you simply here for the free ride?

The execution proves without a shadow of a doubt that the murderer will never hurt anyone again. If the death penalty were used correctly, it would certainly prove to deter murder, and it would also be infinitely cheaper. Have I quoted the Bible or anything? I don't need the Bible to talk about "fair" and treating people exactly the same way they treat others. But keep deflecting, seems that's really all you have on this discussion?

RedHopeful wrote:I do remember the caning as I was in Australia at the time and the public there was semi-mortified. Obviously Mad, you don't have a problem with cruel and unusual punishment. ;-7

Also, I'm curious as to what you think needs to be done to improve the speed of the judicial system. Are you more in favor of getting rid of the frivilous lawsuits and such to reduce the load on the system? Or are you more in favor of moving 'apparent cases' through more quickly by reducing search/discovery and perhaps even trial by jury?

Either way, I'm with CP that you have to at least attempt to give each person their due process when it comes to judgements and punishments. To err is human...


Mortified about a very hard spanking? After he caused as much damage as he did? I'd expect the French to be mortified, but I thought Australians had more backbone. Guess not. :-b

Absolutely get rid of the frivolous lawsuits. Said that for years, not that frivolous lawsuits have anything to do with this though. As to a murder trial, give the defendant his day (or two, or weeks) in court. If they are found guilty, they get 5 days max for their appeal. Their life is at stake, so if they can't prove reasonable doubt at trial and still cannot prove it five days later, it is game over. Besides, nothing happens the 20+ years they sit on death row. It all happens right in the last couple of days prior to the execution date. So quit wasting all that time and money. Frankly I'd rather them be marched out back immediately following a guilty verdict and shot in the head, however, to appease some people I've softened to giving the extra 5 days. I won't go any further than that.
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Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby bigh0rt » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:20 am

Madison wrote:I would gladly walk out back behind the courtroom and take a bullet to the brain if found guilty of murder, because it sends a clear message to would-be murderers that if you kill someone, you will die.

What if you were found guilty but you didn't do it? Isn't the message being sent here, "even if you don't kill someone, you might still die."??
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:57 am

Mad, I gotta give you credit, it's spectacular how sane your posts have become in my eyes after dealing with wrveres.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:57 am

im pretty sure they're the same person :-D
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