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Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby TheRock » Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:24 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:You pro death penalty crowd folks are always baffling to me. Do you ignore the numerous cases of wrongful death penalty convictions or just not care?


You anti death penalty folks are baffling to me. Do you ignore that this man just undisputedly and quite intentionally killed 70 kids or just not care?
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:01 pm

wrveres wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:and for an added bonus, takes a job away from some guy that didn't gun down 70 some odd children.

There's only 1000 jobs, and there's 10,000 people to fill em ... "give it to the murderer!!!! Yeah Government""
They don't like killing people, even people that kill people.
Wrong. They get paid by the State to be happy with the arrangement. LOL .... Those sweet Scandinavians, they are just soooo nice and loving, that they just open the door to their homes, and just take em in their arms and embrace em. Yeah Murders!! Yeah!!!!

Please tell me you aren't that delusional dude. Please?
They get cash! Hush Money!! From the Government!!!
I wouldn't expect you to understand a culture of love and understanding, which is so foreign to a culture around which swirls an undercurrent of tribal, animalistic bloodlust.
You sir are delusional. You do believe this crap.
When it comes time to overhaul Americas education system, we really are going to have to start from scratch ... OH MY GOD.
Fix killing with more killing,
yeah, but its just one more guy to kill, and then we are done. ;-7
fix hatred with more hatred,
you mean like that bile i read on that political link you sent.
the right-wing nutjobs
what happened to "fix hatred with more hatred" meme? ... .. lol. I bet there is a word for this hypocrisy. Its .. .. hey check that out ... its hypocrisy. :-)
terror with more terror.
what? who is terrorizing who .. you lost me here, but by now your whole Barbie Playhouse Dream World lalala land thing has me scratching my head ..

lol what the hell am I reading
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Curtis Pride » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:03 pm

TheRock wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:You pro death penalty crowd folks are always baffling to me. Do you ignore the numerous cases of wrongful death penalty convictions or just not care?


You anti death penalty folks are baffling to me. Do you ignore that this man just undisputedly and quite intentionally killed 70 kids or just not care?

So your belief is that killing is bad. Except when you are allowed to do it through government channels?

I care very much that he murdered so many people. Sadly, killing him won't bring any of them back. In fact, it won't serve any purpose other than mindless vengeance. You may claim the existence of a death penalty is a potential deterrent of murder, but you would be wrong. Within the U.S., states without the death penalty have lower murder rates. Ditto for countries.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Madison » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:32 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:You pro death penalty crowd folks are always baffling to me. Do you ignore the numerous cases of wrongful death penalty convictions or just not care?


Nothing is perfect and nothing ever will be. Innocent people (and good people) die in wars, yet on occasion war is a necessity.

urbanbreez wrote:So are you going to refuse to accept the social security check you're about to start receiving (you must be relatively closer to 65 than the rest of us with the exception of Madison) because I'm sick and tired of these right wing baby boomers complaining about government taxation while mentally smiling at the thought of a rake from my paycheck to help them sail through retirement. Must be nice, wish I could plan that into my 401k retirement plan but lets be honest, you're gonna eat it all up before I'm eligible. Like a swarm of locust complaining about the farmer that grew the corn you are devouring.


Your beef is with the government. Anyone drawing or getting ready to draw social security has fully funded it themselves. Unless you think social security taxes are a new thing that only your generation has paid?

TheRock wrote:You anti death penalty folks are baffling to me. Do you ignore that this man just undisputedly and quite intentionally killed 70 kids or just not care?


Maybe he didn't do it and they'd be executing an innocent man. ;-7

You may claim the existence of a death penalty is a potential deterrent of murder, but you would be wrong.


If used correctly, it would work. We'd have to get rid of the limp-wristed and weak-stomached in order to use it properly though.
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Sick of those who are hypocrites.
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Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:59 pm

You guys already have the worst crime rates and most death penalties doled out amongst first world countries, and your proposed solution is to kill more people. I assume by "done properly" you mean "done a lot more frequently and with reduced rights to those accused in the name of expediency". It's no wonder you guys are where you're at in terms of violence.... you think the solution is more violence and more guns. Good luck with that.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby TheRock » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:08 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:
TheRock wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:You pro death penalty crowd folks are always baffling to me. Do you ignore the numerous cases of wrongful death penalty convictions or just not care?


You anti death penalty folks are baffling to me. Do you ignore that this man just undisputedly and quite intentionally killed 70 kids or just not care?

So your belief is that killing is bad. Except when you are allowed to do it through government channels?


Depriving someone of their property or freedoms is also bad. But I'm assuming you support doing just that if the situation demands?

Curtis Pride wrote:I care very much that he murdered so many people. Sadly, killing him won't bring any of them back. In fact, it won't serve any purpose other than mindless vengeance.


Suppose he just raped your sister. Throwing him in jail, making him attend one of Neato's "how to be a productive member of society" classes, beating him, absolutely nothing is going to un-rape her. So should there be no consequences to his actions?
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:41 pm

Madison wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:I wouldn't expect you to understand a culture of love and understanding, which is so foreign to a culture around which swirls an undercurrent of tribal, animalistic bloodlust.


You do know that removing those who kill from society has nothing to do with bloodlust, right? If not, WR is right, you're totally insane and should check yourself into a mental facility immediatly. I think this idiot should be marched out back and shot in the head. Not because I want to see him die, not because I want to see the blood, not for revenge (hey, I don't know anyone he murdered, so it can't be personal), but simply because he took innocent lives and should give his in return for that, and he has proven he can not and will not be a functional, trusted member of society, EVER (if you think he can be "rehabilitated enough to ever be trusted again, I challenge you to go find a released murderer and let him live with you). It has nothing to do with bloodlust or any kind of "tribal animalistic" mentality. So it is money where our mouths are time. I am willing to pull the trigger on a convicted murderer, or flip the switch, or give the injection, or whatever method we want to use and I've said that many, many times over the years. Are you willing to let a murderer live with you and any family you might have? If you're an honest guy, you will admit that you would not let a convicted murderer live with you, at which point you admit that rehabilitation can not and will not work or change anything. Or you can lie. Your choice.

I'll buy the "removing him from society" argument. But when it's about "justice for the families", then it becomes vengeance and then it scares me.

There's a 99% chance that this guy will be dangerous to society forever but Norway has the resources to attempt to reform him. If this was America's prison system, the chances would be functionally zero. I would not let American murderers live with me (except Tookie of course) because there's no system in place to ascertain their sanity, but there's probably convicted murderers from Scandinavia that I would let live with me. Call me crazy, but the fact of the matter is that they wouldn't let them out until they were sure that they were reformed. It's not like they serve a 21 year sentence and are set free no matter what; they stay in until they are deemed safe, and then they are set free to a life that deters them from approaching the circumstances they had when they committed the original crime.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Curtis Pride » Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:10 pm

TheRock wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:
TheRock wrote:
You anti death penalty folks are baffling to me. Do you ignore that this man just undisputedly and quite intentionally killed 70 kids or just not care?

So your belief is that killing is bad. Except when you are allowed to do it through government channels?


Depriving someone of their property or freedoms is also bad. But I'm assuming you support doing just that if the situation demands?

Curtis Pride wrote:I care very much that he murdered so many people. Sadly, killing him won't bring any of them back. In fact, it won't serve any purpose other than mindless vengeance.


Suppose he just raped your sister. Throwing him in jail, making him attend one of Neato's "how to be a productive member of society" classes, beating him, absolutely nothing is going to un-rape her. So should there be no consequences to his actions?

Depriving someone of their property and freedom is temporary and can be rescinded. That's the difference between the death penalty and anything else. Murdering someone cannot be rescinded. That is my only problem with the death penalty. There are mistakes; there are corrupt cops. There are prosecutors who are compensated based on conviction % rather than finding the right person. There is no acceptable amount of wrongful executions. This is quite different than people dying in a war zone.

It would be quite irrational for me to advocate one set of rules for everyone and another one for when it's someone who committed a crime against a loved one. Yes, if someone raped or killed or whatever else you want to say to my sister or wife, I would not want them to be executed.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Madison » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:43 pm

Skin Blues wrote:You guys already have the worst crime rates and most death penalties doled out amongst first world countries, and your proposed solution is to kill more people. I assume by "done properly" you mean "done a lot more frequently and with reduced rights to those accused in the name of expediency". It's no wonder you guys are where you're at in terms of violence.... you think the solution is more violence and more guns. Good luck with that.


Yes, by "done properly" I mean done a whole lot faster. Punishing someone long after the fact doesn't deter anything or prevent future criminals from being criminals. Swift and immediate punishment is the way to go, but we've got too many people that cannot stomach what it takes in order to have a peaceful civilized society. That means quickly taking out the trash when needed.

Neato Torpedo wrote:I'll buy the "removing him from society" argument. But when it's about "justice for the families", then it becomes vengeance and then it scares me.

There's a 99% chance that this guy will be dangerous to society forever but Norway has the resources to attempt to reform him. If this was America's prison system, the chances would be functionally zero. I would not let American murderers live with me (except Tookie of course) because there's no system in place to ascertain their sanity, but there's probably convicted murderers from Scandinavia that I would let live with me. Call me crazy, but the fact of the matter is that they wouldn't let them out until they were sure that they were reformed. It's not like they serve a 21 year sentence and are set free no matter what; they stay in until they are deemed safe, and then they are set free to a life that deters them from approaching the circumstances they had when they committed the original crime.


I rarely talk about justice for the families. I'd sooner talk about fairness, and eye for an eye, or treating them the way they treated others. Most importantly it is about getting the murderer out of society permanently so as to guarantee that person will never hurt another innocent person and also to send a message to would-be criminals that if you kill someone, you will die.

I do apologize, but I'll just call you naive. There's no way I'd let anyone, and I do mean anyone on the face of this Earth convince me that a convicted murderer has been reformed and now poses no threat. People's lives are at stake and I will not endanger those I care about most.

Curtis Pride wrote:Depriving someone of their property and freedom is temporary and can be rescinded.


I disagree. Sure, you can give someone property back or an equivalent, but how do you give someone years of their life back? Or even one day? That is impossible to do. We will all die when we die, there is no way to give someone an extra day, much less extra years. Once those days or years are gone, they are gone forever.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Curtis Pride » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:45 pm

Madison, you would love Saudi Arabia. Their justice system is basically exactly what you want. They just base it on a different religion than you want.

The thought that the problem with our capital punishment process is that it isn't done fast enough is just barbaric.

That you repeatedly side ascribe inerrant qualities to the police and justice system is hilariously naive. But it's also a bit depressing that you just do not care about the risk of wrongful arrests, wrongful executions and other abuses of power.
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