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Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby wrveres » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:57 am

Curtis Pride wrote:
wrveres wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:Well obviously not, but Norway's prison system is geared much more towards rehabilitation while the U.S. is geared more towards punishment. An international recidivism survey with standardized parameters would be nice to cite but there hasn't been a reliable one done to my knowledge.

Edit: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/0 ... y-is-safe/

Sure the site is biased but the sources and statistics aren't.

Well what your biased site fails to mention, is that Norway has about 3000 prisoners total. Its a very small country, with a very small population of 4 million. The United States has 2,245,000 inmates! It's a lot easier to "reeducate" 3000 people than it is 2.2 million. Heck you could probably give all 3000 their own "grief counselor" .. lol

Do the math and look at the % of the population in the U.S. is in prison compared to Norway (or really, any other industrialized country).

You'll see that the U.S. inmate populate dwarves any other country. We have 5% of the global population and 25% of the incarcerated population. Why? Because we criminalize and actively prosecute far more "crimes" than any other country.

When the U.S. is filling its prisons with people who violated statutes related to non-violent, consensual crimes (drug, prostitution, etc), it results in far more criminals than any other country. The massive amount of criminals, plus the fact that all the criminals are thrown into the same pot, is why nearly 70% of released prisoners released in the U.S. are arrested again within 3 years.
you know its interesting. i had a really long post typed up originally about the US war on drugs, and what its done to our prison population, but i deleted it before submitting. ... ... because it had ZERO to do with the situation in Norway.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby wrveres » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:02 am

Curtis Pride wrote:..

if i remember right, you are a cop, or at least something law enforcement related, so question to you. Do you think that a man who murders 70 some odd children should be given only 21 years in jail?
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Curtis Pride » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:46 am

I'm not a cop in Norway, and I know nothing about what jail is like in Norway.

The big difference seems to be that America's concept is jail is more around retribution (e.g. hard labor, implicitly allowing prison rape, etc) while Norway seems to be more around preventing recidivism.

Some people truly cannot be changed and probably need to be separated from society for good, and I'd guess that someone who calmly murders 70 kids is one of those people - but I could be wrong.

I think that far too many people get institutionalized in the US because we are too focused on revenge.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby The_Show » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:51 am

I came across this video about what Norwegian prisons are like. It's pretty surprising to say the least...almost surreal. One of the most surprising bits was when they mentioned the prison giving an inmate a chainsaw to cut down trees after he had gotten arrested for killing 3 people with a chainsaw.

http://www.vbs.tv/newsroom/the-vice-gui ... risons--60

(They also have a really interesting video about North Korea)
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby wrveres » Wed Aug 03, 2011 2:32 am

Beautiful. We should try that in the US. We'll give everybody laptops and big screens and there own house. Let em go swimming, and play tennis. Again, i say we set this up in the heart of San Francisco. All 3 million of em. ;-D
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:32 am

wrveres wrote:Beautiful. We should try that in the US. We'll give everybody laptops and big screens and there own house. Let em go swimming, and play tennis. Again, i say we set this up in the heart of San Francisco. All 3 million of em. ;-D

I thought you people were against spending.

If we had infinite money, I would TOTALLY be up for it. It would be glorious to be able to afford a Norway-style rehabilitation-centered prison system that would actually churn out responsible citizens instead of more criminals.
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby AussieDodger » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:47 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:
wrveres wrote:Beautiful. We should try that in the US. We'll give everybody laptops and big screens and there own house. Let em go swimming, and play tennis. Again, i say we set this up in the heart of San Francisco. All 3 million of em. ;-D

I thought you people were against spending.


What do you mean you people?
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby AussieDodger » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:15 am

I heard this moron wants to plead insanity.......even if they find him to be insane SO FREAKING WHAT? He still killed like a million people.
I believe this is how it should go:

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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby RedHopeful » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:29 am

In Norway, an insanity defence requires that a defendant be in a state of psychosis while committing the crime with which he is charged. That means the defendant has lost contact with reality to the point that he is no longer in control of his actions.
--------------------

Dr Rygnestad said a psychotic person can only perform simple tasks. Even driving from Oslo to the island where Breivik opened fire at a political youth camp would be too complicated.

By his own account, the 32-year-old spent years plotting the attack.

On July 22, he set off a car bomb that killed eight people in Oslo, then drove north to Utoya island. There, he shot 69 people, mostly members of the youth wing of the governing Labour Party.

The Telegraph
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Re: Norway's One Man Wrecking Crew

Postby urbanbreez » Wed Aug 03, 2011 11:17 am

I think in this particular case, with a sane person wanting so desperately to get his message validated, being declared insane is probably the last punishment in the world he would choose for himself. He won't be executed and martyred and the powers that be refuse to validate his ramblings with the trial of a legally sane person. In my opinion, he is most certainly not crazy (just disenfranchised) and I can think of nothing, not even execution, worse than spending the rest of my days around crazy people and trying to convince others that I'm not one of them.
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