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how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

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how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby kickureface » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:57 pm

this is something i am having trouble with--the keeper SP's.

this year it was obvious that
halladay
felix
lincecum

was the accepted ranking for keeper SP.

what about for next year? doc is a year older, felix is still solid, but lincecum has fallen down a bit whereas weaver and verlander (and greinke, if he stops being unlucky) make a case for the top 3-5. thoughts?
12x23
Keep: 1IF, 1OF, 1SP, 1RP
R, HR, RBI, AVG, SB, BB, K, 1B, 2B, (3B, E, GS)
W, SV, K, ERA, WHIP, BB, HLD, IP, QS, (L, BS, CG)

C: Montero
1B: Teix
2B: Roberts
3B: Longoria
SS: Nishioka
LF: Holliday
CF: Rios
RF: Bruce
OF: Pence
IF: Kila
Util: Raburn
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby rjforlife » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:26 pm

I'm sorry, but saying Greinke could make a case for top 3-5 is ludicrous. I understand he has been unlucky, but that doesn't magically change into an immediate top 5 SP. The K rate has been good but there is nothing else to fall back on besides sabermetrics. The fact is that the last 2 season the stats are not there, and you cannot justify a consideration for top 3-5. Greinke MAYBE slips into the top 10 if he turns around his "luck", but there are simply too many great pitchers right now to put a guy in the ranks who's numbers aren't even close to the guys above him.
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby kickureface » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:34 pm

rjforlife wrote:I'm sorry, but saying Greinke could make a case for top 3-5 is ludicrous. I understand he has been unlucky, but that doesn't magically change into an immediate top 5 SP. The K rate has been good but there is nothing else to fall back on besides sabermetrics. The fact is that the last 2 season the stats are not there, and you cannot justify a consideration for top 3-5. Greinke MAYBE slips into the top 10 if he turns around his "luck", but there are simply too many great pitchers right now to put a guy in the ranks who's numbers aren't even close to the guys above him.

ok leave him out, then the rest of the question still stands
12x23
Keep: 1IF, 1OF, 1SP, 1RP
R, HR, RBI, AVG, SB, BB, K, 1B, 2B, (3B, E, GS)
W, SV, K, ERA, WHIP, BB, HLD, IP, QS, (L, BS, CG)

C: Montero
1B: Teix
2B: Roberts
3B: Longoria
SS: Nishioka
LF: Holliday
CF: Rios
RF: Bruce
OF: Pence
IF: Kila
Util: Raburn
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby Padsin05 » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:36 pm

exactly all these sabermetrics can only go so far, his numbers from a fantasy standpoint wont warrant a top 5 much less top 3.

pitchers in keepers I would take over Grienke

Verlander, Weaver, Felix, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Kershaw, Pineda, Strasburg, Hanson, Lincecum, CC, Price, Haren, Jurjens, Lester and prolly some others I am missing

also if its only a keeper league and not a dynasty league, I pretty much never change my rankings over redraft leagues. I just take out the top 5 or whatever rounds you have.

if I have 2 guys matched equally, then ill consider long term
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby bayside » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:49 pm

I agree with padsin05 in that i wouldnt really change my rankings for redrafts vs keeper leagues UNLESS there are keeper penalties.
Im in a league with a pretty common keeper setup where we can keep players based on the round they were originally drafted, and the round increases every year they are kept.

so for me, the discussion gets much more interesting if the question is "how would you rank SP in order of value according to what round they can be kept" (or in order of their keeper salary in auction leagues.)
You could just use ADP's from this years draft to keep it simple.

for example how do you rank:
Halladay kept in round 2
Lincecum kept in round 3
Lester kept in round 5
Verlander kept in round 6
Weaver kept in round 8
Hanson kept in round 8
Marcum kept in round 12
Strasburg kept in round 20
Pineda kept in round 21
Beachy kept in round 22
etc etc
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby kickureface » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:23 am

bayside wrote:I agree with padsin05 in that i wouldnt really change my rankings for redrafts vs keeper leagues UNLESS there are keeper penalties.
Im in a league with a pretty common keeper setup where we can keep players based on the round they were originally drafted, and the round increases every year they are kept.

so for me, the discussion gets much more interesting if the question is "how would you rank SP in order of value according to what round they can be kept" (or in order of their keeper salary in auction leagues.)
You could just use ADP's from this years draft to keep it simple.

for example how do you rank:
Halladay kept in round 2
Lincecum kept in round 3
Lester kept in round 5
Verlander kept in round 6
Weaver kept in round 8
Hanson kept in round 8
Marcum kept in round 12
Strasburg kept in round 20
Pineda kept in round 21
Beachy kept in round 22
etc etc


exactly, so i guess if you were jumping INTO a keeper league, the rankings would be different.

whats the diff between keeper and dynasty? im in one in which we keep an IF OF SP RP for last rounds of next yr draft...
12x23
Keep: 1IF, 1OF, 1SP, 1RP
R, HR, RBI, AVG, SB, BB, K, 1B, 2B, (3B, E, GS)
W, SV, K, ERA, WHIP, BB, HLD, IP, QS, (L, BS, CG)

C: Montero
1B: Teix
2B: Roberts
3B: Longoria
SS: Nishioka
LF: Holliday
CF: Rios
RF: Bruce
OF: Pence
IF: Kila
Util: Raburn
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby bayside » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:45 am

kickureface wrote:exactly, so i guess if you were jumping INTO a keeper league, the rankings would be different.

whats the diff between keeper and dynasty? im in one in which we keep an IF OF SP RP for last rounds of next yr draft...


ya thats true, in a first year keeper league the rankings would change a bit for me, but I would still focus on winning the current season and not so much future seasons. I prefer to worry about the future... well, in the future.
for the most part guys like Pineda and Strasburg will go really early in all formats because they can help a team win now.
guys like Teheran, Banuelos, Mike Montgomery, Matt Moore would probabaly get a boost in first year keeper leagues where there are lots of players kept. I tend to think over drafting prospects like this is a mistake though.


in dynasty leagues most, or all, of the roster is carried over from season to season.
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby Inukchuk » Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:36 am

Padsin05 wrote:Verlander, Weaver, Felix, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Kershaw, Pineda, Strasburg, Hanson, Lincecum, CC, Price, Haren, Jurjens, Lester


One of these names is severely out of place.
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby DbacksRback » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:43 am

Inukchuk wrote:
Padsin05 wrote:Verlander, Weaver, Felix, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Kershaw, Pineda, Strasburg, Hanson, Lincecum, CC, Price, Haren, Jurjens, Lester


One of these names is severely out of place.


And who is that?
I keep 5 players and am already sold on Hamels and Kershaw ;-D
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Re: how would you rank keeper SP's for next season?

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Jul 15, 2011 10:53 am

DbacksRback wrote:
Inukchuk wrote:
Padsin05 wrote:Verlander, Weaver, Felix, Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Kershaw, Pineda, Strasburg, Hanson, Lincecum, CC, Price, Haren, Jurjens, Lester


One of these names is severely out of place.


And who is that?
I keep 5 players and am already sold on Hamels and Kershaw ;-D

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