Who is the AL MVP so far?

[J35J]

there are always a lot of fancy numbers thrown around. but this is not just an award based on numbers alone, or MLB could use a computer to determine the winner.

Fancy numbers >>>> trying to determine who a better teammate is, or even trying to determine how much more important a good teammate is over someone who is just an ok teammate.

[A Fleshner Fantasy]

Can we just rename this thread which AL player has the best stats and then continue with this discussion?

[mweir145]

there are always a lot of fancy numbers thrown around. but this is not just an award based on numbers alone, or MLB could use a computer to determine the winner.

We can certainly use #'s to note that Michael Young isn't anywhere close to the most valuable player on his team.

[A Fleshner Fantasy]

there are always a lot of fancy numbers thrown around. but this is not just an award based on numbers alone, or MLB could use a computer to determine the winner.

We can certainly use #'s to note that Michael Young isn't anywhere close to the most valuable player on his team.

I agree with this, but how can we use fancy numbers to say whether JV was more valuable than Bautista or Ellsbury? It's comparing apples and oranges.

[wrveres]

2011 fWAR Rangers:
Kinsler 7.7
Wilson 5.9
Beltre 5.7
Napoli 5.6
Andrus 4.5
Hamilton 4.2
Harrison 4.2
Young 3.8

2011 fWAR Blue Jays:
Bautista: 8.3
Escobar 4.3
Morrow: 3.4
Romero: 2.9
Lawrie: 2.7
Arencibia: 1.5
Encarnacion: 1.5
Molina: 1.3

Hard to say that Michael Young is the clear MVP of anything. The Rangers have several great players.

there you go again.

[mweir145]

there you go again.

Yes, there I go again introducing value statistics into a debate about who is valuable. Why deal with stats when you can talk in platitudes like leadership?

[wrveres]

there you go again.

Yes, there I go again introducing value statistics into a debate about who is valuable. Why deal with stats when you can talk in platitudes like leadership?

fail.
i dont see statistic(s). i see one stat, and a made up one at that, that you are using once again to hang your hat on ..
im not saying Mike Young is the best player on the team, but he certainly isn't the worst regular as your made up stat would have us believe. He lead the team in OBP, Hits, Total Bases and RC .... stats you used to rub one out to ...

but hey, dont worry, next year, they'll invent another stat thats even better than this one, and you can call BS to anybody using WAR...

[Neato Torpedo]

Can we just rename this thread which AL player has the best stats and then continue with this discussion?

The problem with not using stats in the MVP discussion is that our own biases get in the way. We can't say objectively that Verlander has been a team leader, or that Ellsbury hasn't. All we have is hearsay and articles written by people making assumptions. Verlander is more likable than Ellsbury and he gets glowing reports from sportswriters because they like him more. We can never know how many more or how many less wins the Red Sox would have had if Ellsbury was better or worse as a team leader, and all we can do is make guesses. These guesses are largely influenced by how much we like a player and what we hear about them. I mean, Bautista has been documented to be a team leader and mentor to young guys like Lawrie, but the rest of the team simply isn't talented enough to overcome the more talented Red Sox/Yankees/Rays. Why isn't he getting credit for that?

I'll admit it, I like Verlander more, but at the same time I do believe that we should only measure a player's value by what we know happened.

[mweir145]

there you go again.

Yes, there I go again introducing value statistics into a debate about who is valuable. Why deal with stats when you can talk in platitudes like leadership?

fail.
i dont see statistic(s). i see one stat, and a made up one at that, that you are using once again to hang your hat on ..
im not saying Mike Young is the best player on the team, but he certainly isn't the worst regular as your made up stat would have us believe. He lead the team in OBP, Hits, Total Bases and RC .... stats you used to rub one out to ...

but hey, dont worry, next year, they'll invent another stat thats even better than this one, and you can call BS to anybody using WAR...

I don't care if you don't trust WAR. The point was to show how many great players there actually are on the Rangers. Young is merely one of them (and certainly not the best one).

If you want to talk about the MVP of the Rangers, that discussion should certainly start with Ian Kinsler (and you shouldn't need a stat like WAR to tell you the enormous impact he's had).

[SpecialFNK]

I'm not saying the numbers aren't important.
I think you use the numbers and everything else that happens with them in baseball. the numbers alone themselves are good, but how/when they are accumulated IMO matter. for example, a player who can help carry his team in September into the playoffs IMO gets an edge for that. Ellsbury was great, but still not good enough. Miguel Cabrera though was also great in September and helped the Tigers get into the playoffs.
I'm not voting for Verlander, to me he's not even in the discussion because he's a pitcher. he WILL win the Cy Young, the highest award for a pitcher. to me no pitcher is worthy of the MVP, which should be the top award for hitters.
if you really want to get into which pitcher was more valuable to the Tigers, you might as well throw Doug Fister into that discussion.
with Seattle.. 3-12, 3.33 ERA, 1.17 WHIP in 146 IP
with Detroit.. 8-1, 1.79 ERA, 0.84 WHIP in 70.1 IP