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Trade Controversy

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Trade Controversy

Postby uncfan1986 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:35 am

I'm in a 12-team, 8-keeper (plus up to 5 keeper minors) league and we have had some trade controversies recently. To give a little perspective, the league is a daily lineup league with a limit of 9 SPs on the roster at all times (limit of 4 waiver claims a week to prevent churning). Lineups are standard C-3OF with a DH and a U spot and then 5 active SPs and 3 active RPs. Scoring is fairly standard. The veto rules are as follows: If all 12 teams vote, up to 3 objections are allowed. If fewer than 12 teams vote, no more than 2 objections are allowed. Trade voting lasts for 48 hours. These 3 trades were voted down, all involving the same owner. I'd like to hear your opinions on them as well as if you think the voting is questionable enough to suspect personal bias against the owner involved.

Team A - Playoff Contender
Team B - Playoff Contender
Team C - Rebuilding
Team D - Rebuilding

Trade #1 (5/13/11)

Team A gets Alex Rodriguez
Team B gets Danny Espinosa and Logan Morrison

Result: 6 Yes, 5 No - Vetoed

Trade #2 (6/25/11)

Team A gets Alex Rios
Team C gets Pedro Alvarez

Result: 8 Yes, 3 No - Vetoed

Trade #3 (6/25/11)

Team A gets Paul Konerko, Ryan Vogelsong (RP eligible)
Team D gets Michael Pineda

Result: 4 Yes, 4 No - Vetoed

Just to give you some perspective on the league voting, here are some trades that have gone through during this month time frame:

Konerko/Kendrick/Moustakas for BJ Upton/Stauffer/Moreland
Danks/Drabek/Haren/N. Walker for U. Jimenez/Lohse/Cain/Polanco
S. Rodriguez/Hellickson/C. Jones for A. Rodriguez
Choo/Suzuki for Avila/D. Brown

Your thoughts are appreciated. If I can help with a different issue, post your topic.
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Re: Trade Controversy

Postby bigmck » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:59 am

The trades seem OK to me. I think the problem is that you make it too easy to veto a trade. In a 12 team league, you have ten uninvolved owners voting on the trade. It seems to me that you should allow for five vetos on all trades, maybe even six. There will always be a few guys that will veto all trades. Trades should only be vetoed when they are extremely uneven or collusion is involved.
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Re: Trade Controversy

Postby uncfan1986 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:12 am

I definitely agree - I'm not the commissioner in this particular league so I did not set up the voting process. There will certainly always be people that veto trades for any number of reasons but my concern is that many other deals with questionable dynamics did not fall victim to this veto dilemma while this series of trades did - coincidentally all by the same owner. The only other trades that have been vetoed recently that did not involve this owner were:

Floyd/Lincecum for D. Brown/Capuano
Tulowitzki/A. Jones for Choo/Alex Gonzalez

It seems that these above clearly deserved a veto. I can't explain the vetoes in the series of trades in my initial post.
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Re: Trade Controversy

Postby mkultra » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:11 pm

uncfan1986 wrote:There will certainly always be people that veto trades for any number of reasons but my concern is that many other deals with questionable dynamics did not fall victim to this veto dilemma while this series of trades did - coincidentally all by the same owner.


It's two sides of the same coin. With the veto threshold so low, you're basically at the whim of anyone with an axe to grind. 3 out of 10, or even worse 2 out of 9, are just not tenable. If 7 people not involved in the trade are standing up and saying "it's fine with me", why should that be worth any less than 2 people complaining?
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Re: Trade Controversy

Postby WaCougMBS » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:29 pm

Yeah, this looks like one of those unfortunate situations that will have to go through because of the events being well within the bounds of the established rules of the league. At least it will serve as a decent piece of evidence for making a change in the future though - I agree with the above posters that you should probably push for having AT LEAST 5 votes for a veto, and I'm always a big fan of having at least the smallest possible simple majority rule over veto situations.

In most leagues there are 1-2 people with an axe to grind and/or with no understanding of the basic premise of most fantasy trades (to improve your team, not necessarily to get equal value or "win" the deal). I can see how the Konerko trade might get a vote or two from these people though I'd never vote against it - all three of those are allowable trades for sure IMO. I also have no problem with the other four trades you used as examples, but they are certainly "proof" that deals ascribing to my above premise have gone through in the past and should be allowed by the majority in the future as well. Looks like no collusion in any of the deals and they all have a pretty obvious motivation of mutually beneficial team improvement if you ask me ...
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Re: Trade Controversy

Postby ShdowMastr81 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:26 pm

I agree tha all of those trades are acceptable for one reason or another. The veto requirements in this league will def lead to.future controversy. I have done the 5 out of 12 concept and I also do a 3 lm review panel where 2/3 majority wins. That way all aspects ie rebuilding, positional needs, value are all taken into account. If it takes three people to veto, that could easily be one w/ an axe to grind, one thinking side A is better and one thinking side B is better. And poof no trade. Everyone values players differently so there has to be a majority to make me as an LM think, hey this one isn't working. If my review panel is going towards a veto, we go as far as contacting each team separately to get their side of it and help figure out why it works, or how to make it work. Just an idea.
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Re: Trade Controversy

Postby bigmck » Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:23 pm

Just a work on how my league handles vetos. The league has been running for sixteen years with most of the people in it for at least ten. On Auction Day we have a budget of $260. During the season the budget is $290. You can make any trade as long as you stay under the budget. There are no vetos.
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Re: Trade Controversy

Postby fast dogs » Sun Jul 03, 2011 4:33 am

your league has got in the habit of vetoing, you need to have an open discussion about having owners resist the urge to veto for the good of the league kinda thing. This league is headed for breakup or at best losing several owners over this. This is exactly how keeper leagues dissolve.Suggest changing the rules some; but until you change the mindset of the owners involved you are going to keep having problems
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