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Need Help with Trade Approval

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Need Help with Trade Approval

Postby rchemo » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:14 pm

14 team league with up to 4 keepers, snake draft, CBS scoring i.e 4 pts per HR, 10 points/win, etc... (if you have a cbs account http://pepes.baseball.cbssports.com/details). Keepers for 2012 will cost 3 rounds more than previous years round.

Team A (2011 round taken)
Gives Up to Team B
Chris Sale (round 20)
Chase Utley (round 14)
Adam Wainright ( Round 16)

Team B
Gives Up to Team A
Granderson (round 6)
Lester (round 1)
V-Mart(round 4)
Webb (round 20)

I could really use some insight. My gut reaction is that it's a little lopsided if you just compare player to player. But if you factor in the keeper value and the facts that both teams are .500 teams, and well in contention, it looks pretty close to me. Both teams will get a boost in total and average points after the trade(see below). Team B is giving up alot of brand name/healthy players, but is not weakening his team(i.e. his bench is as good or better than his starters/traded players) and he is setting up his keepers. Team A is giving up high risk/reward players for next year, and trying to make a run at the title this year.. Soooo....

Please, your thoughts are most welcome!!!

Todd A..



The Details

Team A Before Trade
Active Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Pierzynski, A.J. C CHW 41 30 10.00 C
Butler, Billy 1B KC 97 88 16.00 1B
Cano, Robinson 2B NYY 100 97 18.00 2B
Beltre, Adrian 3B TEX 100 99 18.00 3B
Rollins, Jimmy SS PHI 99 95 15.00 SS
Bourn, Michael CF HOU 90 82 15.00 OF
Braun, Ryan LF MIL 100 97 23.00 OF
Rios, Alex CF CHW 90 52 11.00 OF
Utley, Chase 2B PHI 99 84 2.00 DH
Span, Denard CF MIN 78 65 14.00 U
Jackson, Edwin SP CHW 75 29 11.00 SP
Kershaw, Clayton SP LA 98 87 23.00 SP
Nolasco, Ricky SP FLA 96 65 17.00 SP
Penny, Brad SP DET 23 14 8.00 SP
Bell, Heath RP SD 96 91 15.00 RP
Madson, Ryan RP PHI 84 77 16.00 RP
Total 232
Reserve Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Pena, Carlos 1B CHC 71 50 10.00 1B
Lawrie, Brett 2B TOR 47 3 0.00 2B
Jackson, Austin CF DET 60 33 8.00 OF
Young, Delmon LF MIN 73 37 4.00 OF
Jennings, Desmond CF TB 37 1 0.00 DH
Valencia, Danny 3B MIN 33 24 11.00 DH
Dickey, R.A. SP NYM 20 8 7.00 SP
Sale, Chris RP CHW 19 7 8.00 RP
Total 280
Reserve Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Wainwright, Adam SP STL 28 0 0.00 SP


Team B Before Trade
Active Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Avila, Alex C DET 95 79 11.00 C
Young, Michael 3B TEX 99 99 17.00 1B
Murphy, Daniel 1B NYM 20 17 12.00 2B
Reynolds, Mark 3B BAL 82 59 10.00 3B
Theriot, Ryan 2B STL 52 38 12.00 SS
Granderson, Curtis CF NYY 100 96 21.00 OF
Holliday, Matt LF STL 100 61 16.00 OF
Ibanez, Raul LF PHI 68 55 13.00 OF
Martinez, Victor C DET 100 96 13.00 DH
Pierre, Juan LF CHW 69 49 13.00 U
Bumgarner, Madison SP SF 82 54 9.00 SP
Carpenter, Chris SP STL 96 77 11.00 SP
Lester, Jon SP BOS 98 86 18.00 SP
Vogelsong, Ryan RP SF 68 47 17.00 SP
Axford, John RP MIL 86 77 14.00 RP
Rodriguez, Francisco RP NYM 95 90 15.00 RP
Total 222
Reserve Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Davis, Ike 1B NYM 93 4 11.00 1B
Loney, James 1B LA 37 17 10.00 1B
Patterson, Corey CF TOR 39 30 13.00 OF
Swisher, Nick RF NYY 79 36 11.00 OF
Fuld, Sam LF TB 41 20 12.00 DH
Beckett, Josh SP BOS 97 84 17.00 SP
Burnett, A.J. SP NYY 90 54 15.00 SP
Harrison, Matt RP TEX 53 23 19.00 SP
Total 330
Reserve Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Webb, Brandon SP TEX 37 0 0.00 SP

Team A After Trade
Active Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Martinez, Victor C DET 100 96 13.00 C
Butler, Billy 1B KC 97 88 16.00 1B
Cano, Robinson 2B NYY 100 97 18.00 2B
Beltre, Adrian 3B TEX 100 99 18.00 3B
Rollins, Jimmy SS PHI 99 95 15.00 SS
Bourn, Michael CF HOU 90 82 15.00 OF
Braun, Ryan LF MIL 100 97 23.00 OF
Granderson, Curtis CF NYY 100 96 21.00 OF
Span, Denard CF MIN 78 65 14.00 DH
Valencia, Danny 3B MIN 33 24 11.00 U
Jackson, Edwin SP CHW 75 29 11.00 SP
Kershaw, Clayton SP LA 98 87 23.00 SP
Lester, Jon SP BOS 98 86 18.00 SP
Nolasco, Ricky SP FLA 96 65 17.00 SP
Bell, Heath RP SD 96 91 15.00 RP
Madson, Ryan RP PHI 84 77 16.00 RP
Total 264
Reserve Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Pierzynski, A.J. C CHW 41 30 10.00 C
Pena, Carlos 1B CHC 71 50 10.00 1B
Lawrie, Brett 2B TOR 47 3 0.00 2B
Jackson, Austin CF DET 60 33 8.00 OF
Rios, Alex CF CHW 90 52 11.00 OF
Young, Delmon LF MIN 73 37 4.00 OF
Jennings, Desmond CF TB 37 1 0.00 DH
Dickey, R.A. SP NYM 20 8 7.00 SP
Penny, Brad SP DET 23 14 8.00 SP
Total 322
Reserve Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Webb, Brandon SP TEX 37 0 0.00 SP

Team B After Trade
Active Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Avila, Alex C DET 95 79 11.00 C
Young, Michael 3B TEX 99 99 17.00 1B
Murphy, Daniel 1B NYM 20 17 12.00 2B
Reynolds, Mark 3B BAL 82 59 10.00 3B
Theriot, Ryan 2B STL 52 38 12.00 SS
Holliday, Matt LF STL 100 61 16.00 OF
Patterson, Corey CF TOR 39 30 13.00 OF
Pierre, Juan LF CHW 69 49 13.00 OF
Ibanez, Raul LF PHI 68 55 13.00 DH
Fuld, Sam LF TB 41 20 12.00 U
Beckett, Josh SP BOS 97 84 17.00 SP
Burnett, A.J. SP NYY 90 54 15.00 SP
Harrison, Matt RP TEX 53 23 19.00 SP
Vogelsong, Ryan RP SF 68 47 17.00 SP
Axford, John RP MIL 86 77 14.00 RP
Rodriguez, Francisco RP NYM 95 90 15.00 RP
Total 226
Reserve Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Davis, Ike 1B NYM 93 4 11.00 1B
Loney, James 1B LA 37 17 10.00 1B
Swisher, Nick RF NYY 79 36 11.00 OF
Utley, Chase 2B PHI 99 84 2.00 DH
Bumgarner, Madison SP SF 82 54 9.00 SP
Carpenter, Chris SP STL 96 77 11.00 SP
Sale, Chris RP CHW 19 7 8.00 RP
Total 288
Reserve Players Own % Start % Avg. Fpts Pos
Wainwright, Adam SP STL 28 0 0.00 SP
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Re: Need Help with Trade Approval

Postby Lofunzo » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:47 pm

Team B is giving up alot of brand name/healthy players, but is not weakening his team(i.e. his bench is as good or better than his starters/traded players) and he is setting up his keepers. Team A is giving up high risk/reward players for next year, and trying to make a run at the title this year.


With this logic, I don't see how this trade can be disputed. Both have very solid and logical reasons for doing this trade.
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Re: Need Help with Trade Approval

Postby WaCougMBS » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:18 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Team B is giving up alot of brand name/healthy players, but is not weakening his team(i.e. his bench is as good or better than his starters/traded players) and he is setting up his keepers. Team A is giving up high risk/reward players for next year, and trying to make a run at the title this year.


With this logic, I don't see how this trade can be disputed. Both have very solid and logical reasons for doing this trade.


Absolutely agreed. There aren't much purer trade intentions than both of these IMO ;-D
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Re: Need Help with Trade Approval

Postby mkultra » Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:12 pm

What exactly is the problem here? Are you the commish and need to approve each trade? What are you worried about happening once this trade goes through?

As is often said here, trades to not need to be "fair". It's a rare trade where one side doesn't wind up better off than the other. A league where both sides of all trades needed to present equal value would be boring. Managers need to be able to run their own teams.
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Re: Need Help with Trade Approval

Postby Dan Lambskin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:19 pm

Lofunzo wrote:
Team B is giving up alot of brand name/healthy players, but is not weakening his team(i.e. his bench is as good or better than his starters/traded players) and he is setting up his keepers. Team A is giving up high risk/reward players for next year, and trying to make a run at the title this year.


With this logic, I don't see how this trade can be disputed. Both have very solid and logical reasons for doing this trade.


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Re: Need Help with Trade Approval

Postby fast dogs » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:29 pm

Keeper leagues are always going to be filled with rebuilding vs competing this year trades. There will be trades made because of this you'd never see in single season leagues, thats just a part of the keeper beauty. The contenders this year don't like to see these deals get done, but they can make the same sort of trades to help them this year & weaken their 2012 squads if they want to as well. BTW, just because someone has a cbs id doesn't mean they can see your private league info. Without an invite, no 1 else can view this league
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Re: Need Help with Trade Approval

Postby rchemo » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:22 pm

Thanks for all your feedback.. Yes, I am the commish, but this year we implemented a keeper rule, so we have no baseline on how to value players.. This trade is unlike any we have ever seen, and since I have a team in the league, I decided to get your input, so as to protect myself from my own biases.

@ Mkultra My fear was exactly what you alluded to: The trade may not seem fair depending on who is doing the analysis, and what could happen is that two equally compelling arguments can be made pro and con. I think fortunately, we do not have a veto rule. My job is solely to prevent teams from cheating, which is just a fail-safe for me, this is a really cool bunch of guys. Anyway, I have every intention of letting each owner make his own mistakes. I let the trade through based on your input, and the fact that nobody is doing anything underhanded. I think maybe we are just learning how to value keepers, and I expect there to be more of these types of trades as the season goes on..

@ fast dogs Right on about contenders this year not liking the deal get done. But, for our first year, we have to learn as a league how keepers work.. Oh, and thanks for the heads up on the CBS thing, I brain-farted about it being private..

Todd
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Re: Need Help with Trade Approval

Postby mkultra » Tue Jun 07, 2011 11:04 am

When you're dealing with major rule changes, there's always going to be some turmoil the first time it has a real impact.

We started FAAB this year in one of my long-running leagues, and people's minds were blown when someone spent 1/4 of his budget on Jordan Walden in the first week. That move paid off.

In my new dynasty league, a lot of eyebrows were raised when I did a 6-player trade with the last-place team that revolved around $1 Hosmer for $44 Gonzo. Turns out I may have let Hosmer go too cheaply.

Prepare to see some occasional craziness when dealing with keepers. At the end of the day, the guideline to follow is, IMO, this: Can both sides of the trade make a simple argument that it benefits their team?
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