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Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby Matthias » Fri May 20, 2011 9:19 am

jfg wrote:I disagree that this as organized as it can get. If you check the forums 5-10 times a day, yeah, it works. But for most people just looking for some info on a couple players it's not very user friendly having all information consolidated to a couple threads in a single forum. In my opinion, the Cafe has the most knowledgeable posters but I feel those voices get lost in massive threads or buried.

Do you mean the daily cheering/venting thread? I rarely peek into those.

The way I view it is that if there's a player of note, there's generally a thread on them along the lines of, "What's going on with X" and if you look for it, or search for it, you'll find it. There's also broader discussions such as the Future Callups thread, the Buy Low/Sell High thread, the ZiPS projections thread, and whatever else tickles people's fancy. Personally, I find these off discussions the most valuable at the Cafe. It's where I learned the concept of BABIP, xERA, ERA+, and what not. And I just don't see any need to try to force things to fit into a particular box. There's already a separate player Injury/Update forum which doesn't get used all that much. Heck, there's probably a dozen forums that don't get used all that much. The problem isn't that the Cafe needs to further sub-divide, clarify, and organize its forums. It just needs to make Leftovers more prominent. There was a whole brouhaha on this exact topic a couple of years ago on the Dark Side (or is this the Dark Side, I always forget which) but the vibe that I'm getting for you that the Cafe essentially needs a better structure for ease of perusing and should cram that down on its users seems to take its users for granted. People don't post here to make the Cafe into the Wiki of fantasy baseball. They post here to exchange ideas, vent a little, learn a little, and talk about whatever off-beat thing that is interesting them at that particular moment in time. I'm not saying that there's no limits. Leftovers is better off not cluttered with all the DTKW questions. But your regular users are not going to check into 6 forums daily to see what's new just because that's what makes sense on a flow chart. They're going to go to the 1 or 2 sub-forums which provides them the best info. And the more that you pare that down the less interest you're going to generally attract. I already linked to rotoworld's fantasy baseball site. It isn't that much better organized than Leftovers but it has a very active user base. If you check out footballguys.com their Shark Pool, which is their Leftovers equivalent, is about the same general guidelines and has an extremely active and knowledgeable user base.

At the end of the day, you can decide to design your site to cater to the n00bs and for some reason expect that everyone else will keep coming out of some allegiance to the site. Or you can design your site to cater to the knowledgeable users and attract the n00bs by giving them good info. I think the latter model would be much more successful than the first. And I'm not even calling myself a knowledgeable user. I've just been here for a while. The whole premise of this thread is, "Hey guys who have been here for a while, why don't you spend X minutes/day answering questions that have no substance and you won't get that much appreciation for, talking about something that is uninteresting to you because it helps out the Cafe." That's just backwards. People may like the Cafe but I don't think anybody really owes it anything and certainly nobody (or at least few) would keep coming here and not get anything out of it for themselves.

And this is a message board. People are going to talk about what interests them. How are you going to reorganize and structure that?

I've pretty much gone off on a long not rant but sermon, I guess, and maybe far exceeded what it is whatever you were thinking. But I would just say generally, the Cafe doesn't need more bureaucracy; it needs less. And it needs to showcase the part of the Cafe that is the most valuable. And that part is Leftovers.

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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby jpbusta » Fri May 20, 2011 9:43 am

Yay, I'm happy I was mentioned in this thread. :-D

Yea like some of the ppl said above, I'm no vet but I try to answer few questions whenever I can. I usually go for the ones with zero replies.

I don't know if it's just me but DTKW forum is kinda fun to read. Especially the articles that ask about players I have in common.

When I joined the cafe in 2004, I didn't know much about Fantasy, actually I didn't know much about baseball at all. A lot of the cafe vets actually helped me a lot in the Analyze my team forum and DTKW forum and it's the least I can do to pay back what I received.

Lastly, I kinda want one of those icons under the avatar. I'm not sure how I can get em but oh well, if I participate in the cafe as much as I could, I'll eventually end up with something right? :-D
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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby slomo007 » Fri May 20, 2011 9:48 am

I think the Cafe is starting to head in the right direction again, but it has a ways to go. It got to the point where everything was so overly organized that nobody posted anywhere. The WebHamster is the worst thing that has happened to the Cafe since Rico was around (wasn't that his name)?

The injury/game commentary/commissioner's corner/and minor league forums could all be abolished completely. This would make leftovers more active and bring some life back to the place.

I know this isn't the proper forum for Cafe suggestions either.....I'm surprised the hamster hasn't gotten a hold of this thread yet.
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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby markj11 » Fri May 20, 2011 9:54 am

I used to but my league turned into 10x10 so my views are skewed on the value of players.
I ain't askin' nobody for nothin, If I can't get it on my own. - Charlie Daniels
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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby wrveres » Fri May 20, 2011 9:58 am

Matthias wrote:
jfg wrote:I disagree that this as organized as it can get. If you check the forums 5-10 times a day, yeah, it works. But for most people just looking for some info on a couple players it's not very user friendly having all information consolidated to a couple threads in a single forum. In my opinion, the Cafe has the most knowledgeable posters but I feel those voices get lost in massive threads or buried.

Do you mean the daily cheering/venting thread? I rarely peek into those.

The way I view it is that if there's a player of note, there's generally a thread on them along the lines of, "What's going on with X" and if you look for it, or search for it, you'll find it. There's also broader discussions such as the Future Callups thread, the Buy Low/Sell High thread, the ZiPS projections thread, and whatever else tickles people's fancy. Personally, I find these off discussions the most valuable at the Cafe. It's where I learned the concept of BABIP, xERA, ERA+, and what not. And I just don't see any need to try to force things to fit into a particular box. There's already a separate player Injury/Update forum which doesn't get used all that much. Heck, there's probably a dozen forums that don't get used all that much. The problem isn't that the Cafe needs to further sub-divide, clarify, and organize its forums. It just needs to make Leftovers more prominent. There was a whole brouhaha on this exact topic a couple of years ago on the Dark Side (or is this the Dark Side, I always forget which) but the vibe that I'm getting for you that the Cafe essentially needs a better structure for ease of perusing and should cram that down on its users seems to take its users for granted. People don't post here to make the Cafe into the Wiki of fantasy baseball. They post here to exchange ideas, vent a little, learn a little, and talk about whatever off-beat thing that is interesting them at that particular moment in time. I'm not saying that there's no limits. Leftovers is better off not cluttered with all the DTKW questions. But your regular users are not going to check into 6 forums daily to see what's new just because that's what makes sense on a flow chart. They're going to go to the 1 or 2 sub-forums which provides them the best info. And the more that you pare that down the less interest you're going to generally attract. I already linked to rotoworld's fantasy baseball site. It isn't that much better organized than Leftovers but it has a very active user base. If you check out footballguys.com their Shark Pool, which is their Leftovers equivalent, is about the same general guidelines and has an extremely active and knowledgeable user base.

At the end of the day, you can decide to design your site to cater to the n00bs and for some reason expect that everyone else will keep coming out of some allegiance to the site. Or you can design your site to cater to the knowledgeable users and attract the n00bs by giving them good info. I think the latter model would be much more successful than the first. And I'm not even calling myself a knowledgeable user. I've just been here for a while. The whole premise of this thread is, "Hey guys who have been here for a while, why don't you spend X minutes/day answering questions that have no substance and you won't get that much appreciation for, talking about something that is uninteresting to you because it helps out the Cafe." That's just backwards. People may like the Cafe but I don't think anybody really owes it anything and certainly nobody (or at least few) would keep coming here and not get anything out of it for themselves.

And this is a message board. People are going to talk about what interests them. How are you going to reorganize and structure that?

I've pretty much gone off on a long not rant but sermon, I guess, and maybe far exceeded what it is whatever you were thinking. But I would just say generally, the Cafe doesn't need more bureaucracy; it needs less. And it needs to showcase the part of the Cafe that is the most valuable. And that part is Leftovers.

imo
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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby wrveres » Fri May 20, 2011 10:03 am

slomo007 wrote:The injury/game commentary/commissioner's corner/and minor league forums could all be abolished completely. This would make leftovers more active and bring some life back to the place.
commissioners corner should be one thread, stickied to leftovers. just like the closers thread.

i never venture that far from leftovers. i never go to commish corner. but, id probably be likely to click the thread if it got a hit in leftovers. i can't explain it, but its just the way it is. id probably even answer a few questions in there.
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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby slomo007 » Fri May 20, 2011 10:05 am

wrveres wrote:
slomo007 wrote:The injury/game commentary/commissioner's corner/and minor league forums could all be abolished completely. This would make leftovers more active and bring some life back to the place.
commissioners corner should be one thread, stickied to leftovers. just like the closers thread.

i never venture that far from leftovers. i never go to commish corner. but, id probably be likely to click the thread if it got a hit in leftovers. i can't explain it, but its just the way it is. id probably even answer a few questions in there.


Agree completely. ;-D
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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby lastingsgriller » Fri May 20, 2011 10:18 am

meh.. DTKW is time consuming. also, I'm no expert. if someone want to hear me irrationally gush about Eric Hosmer, you can find me doing that in leftovers. but trying to balance my day between leftovers, GT and pretending to work, there's just not much time to take a stroll around the entire cafe everyday.
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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby wrveres » Fri May 20, 2011 10:23 am

slomo007 wrote:
wrveres wrote:
slomo007 wrote:The injury/game commentary/commissioner's corner/and minor league forums could all be abolished completely. This would make leftovers more active and bring some life back to the place.
commissioners corner should be one thread, stickied to leftovers. just like the closers thread.

i never venture that far from leftovers. i never go to commish corner. but, id probably be likely to click the thread if it got a hit in leftovers. i can't explain it, but its just the way it is. id probably even answer a few questions in there.


Agree completely. ;-D
plus it would be less forums for the mods to have to watch.
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Re: Why don't vets use the DTKW forum?

Postby Matthias » Fri May 20, 2011 10:38 am

I will caveat the above that it does make sense to sticky some threads. I've read on other sites people say that the Closer thread at the Cafe is the source for them on closer discussions. And something similar could be done for future call-ups. And maybe 1 or 2 very discrete topics of general interest.

I've also suggested in the past that the Cafe should do a Frequently Debated Topics forum where discussions of, "Should I punt saves?" and, "Is QS better than Wins?" could go. And if the Cafe really wanted to leverage what it has, it would do a Hall of All-Time Threads for the, Tru thread and others like it that people consider epic.

So on those kinds of limited exceptions I see value in breaking things out a little bit. But even those I'd be fine not having if it took away energy on just raising the prominence of Leftovers.
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