Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby urbanbreez » Thu May 19, 2011 12:39 pm

If Madison made US economic policy we'd think Afghanistan was Shangri La by 2012.

h0rt is describing a law in economics that stuck with me after college and is one of the smartest observations ever made. Up there with Supply and Demand (incorporates that theory) we know it to be true and you'd have to intentionally ignore or be named Kim Jong Il to not see it.

Take a look at the Law of Comparative Advantage. It states that parties (individuals, nations, corporations) gain from trade, if in the absence of trade, there are different costs to producing the same good or service.

Let's use h0rt as an example of Absolute Advantage in a Comparative Advantage scenario because h0rt likes being made example of and we have the same birthday of 5/10.

1) H0rt lives in NY and his family resides in California. Hort gets a discounted rate on a family cell phone plan. Without his family, the individual plan is $20 more and he gets less minutes. h0rt thinks it's a no-brainer and his family is good with it as long as he pays his portion of the bill. h0rt now has more minutes at less cost.

2) h0rt's little niece is smart, but isn't doing well in math because she just doesn't get her teacher’s style. The family thinks to hire a Tutor but wait a minute, Uncle h0rt is a math teacher! (Absolute Advantage) AND, thanks to the family plan, he can afford to talk with the additional family plan minutes.


3)h0rt does two 30 minute sessions a week that would otherwise cost, for simplicity sake, $30 for tutor. After a month, she brings her grade up from C- to B+ AND the family saved $120.

They just saved approximately $140 and bumped the kid a grade level and just farted in the general direction of the vague definition for independence that keeps getting tossed around in this thread.
Last edited by urbanbreez on Thu May 19, 2011 12:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
urbanbreez
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3200
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Los Angeles. U Jelly?

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Thu May 19, 2011 12:50 pm

uhm... how old is madison?
Image
BitterDodgerFan
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) DrafterEagle Eye
Posts: 6508
Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: City of Grigori

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby urbanbreez » Thu May 19, 2011 12:53 pm

BitterDodgerFan wrote:uhm... how old is madison?

If I had to guess it would be either 10 or 110.
urbanbreez
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3200
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Los Angeles. U Jelly?

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu May 19, 2011 1:34 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:The "self-entitlement" tag thrown on Generation Y is very annoying. Maybe I'm missing what "self-entitlement" is, but I feel like there's absolutely nothing wrong with attempting to give yourself the best possible life you can, and not quitting on that goal immediately. If one quits at the first hurdle, they will never accomplish their dreams. We could probably do without the whining/excuses part and should instead work a little harder to solve our problems. But I'm not sure just giving up on your/goals dreams is a path to life success either. I also would say that most in this generation don't consider just scraping by through life success; we want a bit more than that.


Self-entitlement is that feeling someone has when they feel they deserve something, which they didn't necessarily deserve to begin with. For example, those people who think they should have a promotion when they've done half the work at best to be considered for it.

This tends to be a problem that resonates with Generation Y more than others, but it's simply that: a generalization. It's just convenient for the social pundits to lump on the self-entitled tag to Gen Y'ers, based off some affirmation bias they and their peers observed about Gen Y'ers. Entitlement is a trait that can't be pinned down on a certain group of people; it takes all kinds, really. Also, I think the entitlement issue is one that's blown up way out of proportion to begin with.

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:The college diploma may be devalued, since everyone (or it seems everyone) has one, in terms of the monetary value gained. I think the reason for this is the attitude that has come from college graduates in the past ten years, which is that they aren't there to learn, but are there rather just to buy the piece of paper (and pad their resume) so that they can get a job. This means that kids aren't getting the college experience out of college. The college experience rarely comes from information gained from classes directly (though it can, but I'd say I skipped 30% of my classes in college, and that I remember nothing from like 80% of my classes). Sadly, it's difficult to find out which kids have actually gained the ability to learn in college (and some employers are terrible at figuring this out....).


This is more of a systemic issue that goes back to say, high school or even before that. There's performance standards for students and schools to live up to and that somehow gets in the way of seeing the big picture. You're right though, some college students view college as a means to an end into getting a well-paying job... when it should be an end to itself, to a certain extent. That is, as an experience that improves a graduate as a person, not just as a prospective employee.

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:As a student who recently graduated from an extremely expensive private college (luckily I won't be footing the entire bill), I would say that there are two things that made college worthwhile. The first is that college provides a good step-by-step "learning program" for students, that is otherwise hard to find. The "learning program" hones a student's skills in the area of learning. It's possible to find this outside of college, but I think it's extremely difficult to find it on your own. The more valuable thing that college gives you is the ability to spend time and interact with incredibly bright people. I learned 100 times as much from my friends, fellow classmates, professors, etc. about life and whatever just from being on a college campus as I did from sitting in the college classroom.


Bingo. This is exactly the point that Madison hasn't quite gotten. For most people, college is the best way to find opportunity, people, and much more than that. Those things can be found when going straight into the workplace at 18, but they're usually harder to find than in college. Yes, it's pricey, but a college degree is worth more than its weight in gold... and not just for career reasons.
Image
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21672
(Past Year: 452)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Not nineteen forever

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Madison » Thu May 19, 2011 2:41 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:I never said those life skills were exclusive to learning in college. You tend to think the life skills are best acquired in the working world, but that's just one way. College is another source towards building those skills and character.


Sure, people learn life skills in college, but people learn life skills every day no matter where they are. Sounded like you were saying people "had" to go to college to learn those life skills, when that isn't the case. People will learn them regardless.

Absolutely, that's what it boils down to. You hire the person you feel can do the best job and is the best fit. Just what that is, depends on a case by case basis.


Agreed.

Even those who make 6 to 7 figures and bypassed college are hard to find. They're not as rare as say the billionaire, but still they're the exception to the rule. For those people, going to college wasn't likely what was best for them because perhaps that would just limit their upside and/or they have the skills to go for it right now than later. Not a lot of college bound students can afford to take that chance for lack of skills, upside, resources, and/or opportunity. There's a very good chance of those kids getting some combination of those four factors in college.


Ok, I got to thinking about this earlier. Maybe we're talking about different things. When you talk about someone opening their own business, are you only thinking of new and revolutionary businesses that haven't been seen before? If so, then I fully agree with you that most fail.

However, that's not what I've been discussing. Take for example a lady I know that opened a ballroom dance studio. Teaching people to dance isn't a new concept or anything, and in the past decade her lowest profit for the year was $65K, with the highest year being $98K. Does she count as someone who started their own business and was successful to you? She does as far as what I have been discussing, and I easily know 10 success stories for every 1 failure as far as people I personally know in the real world (non-internet) that have opened businesses and been successful.

I don't want this thread to go on another tangent, but short answer is I don't see Facebook and Twitter going the way of say, AOL and Myspace. There's still some untapped upside and value to be had with Facebook, Twitter, or the next great communication medium to come thereafter.

This is a subject for another thread.


I'll keep it short as well. Facebook has a longer lifespan than Twitter, but neither will withstand the test of time.

I'm sure you didn't come up with the term. However, it's easy to justify a personal opinion by seeking out other opinions like yours. Besides, those articles aren't entirely accurate nor are they devoid of bias or an agenda.

While I do find the "entitlement" tag annoying for Generation Y, that doesn't pale in comparison to some of the stereotypes some generations were/are subject to. For example, a significant portion of parents of Gen Y'ers tended to have frayed relationships with their parents for whatever reason. They overcompensate that by paying as much attention to their Gen Y kids to a fault, some perhaps even living vicariously through their kids. Hence, the entitlement problem, which isn't endemic to the kids themselves.


I don't "seek out" anything when I check out the news. And I read front page headlines and news as several sites.

That's a big if for a lot of people.


If you say so.

No question, a college degree is devalued. However, what I don't think you understand is it's still the educational standard or requirement a lot of employers consider. Having just a high school degree is even more devalued, as a result. You're saying it's overvalued, so don't get one. What I'm saying is it's overvalued, but that shouldn't stop you from earning one and if anything, it should encourage you to get one (too much competition, must stay with them).

Also, you're overlooking the cost of training employees, both in time and money spent. It's expensive enough just to seek and hire new employees. Hiring college grads goes in some way in reducing those training costs, especially when those grads are working in a field they're familiar from their studies/past work experience. All they need is the specifics to find their footing, but they're hardwired (for lack of a better term) to understand the fundamental things because of what they learned in school. You're acting as if it's easy to take 18 year-olds with work experience, much of it might not even be relevant to the task at hand, and mold them into potential star employees. In addition, they might not be as naturally talented as those coming out of college.

As far as salary goes, well, companies might get away with making the most of talent for the cheap in the short term. Once those people realize what they're worth, they'll push for higher compensation sooner than later. Those cost savings really don't wind up lasting too long.


I've acknowledged that some employers are determined to hire someone with a college degree. And I haven't said anyone shouldn't get a college degree, just that it isn't worth what most people think it is.

Unless an employer is sending a new hire to a class or school for training, cost of hiring/training is overblown. Makes for a nice tax write-off for the company though.

I'm not saying a company can hire any 18 year old and train them to do a job, but they can hire the right 18 year old and train them to do a job well. Just depends on the quality of the hiring manager and how well he/she reads people, and the quality of the candidates applying for the job.

You'd be surprised how long companies can get away with underpaying their employees. I know I've been surprised more times than I can count at how little some people are making given the job they do and what similar positions at other companies pay.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Madison » Thu May 19, 2011 3:01 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:I forgot to mention something else... and that's in reference to trade schools and/or certification programs.

The disadvantage with a trade school education and certification program is simply that they're more likely to be considered second-best to traditional four-year college grads. The reality is, most employers view college education as a brand, in the sense that the name offers some kind of security as to the pedigree of the candidate, namely the educational background. So, someone who graduated from UCLA already has an upper hand over an LA Trade Tech College graduate, from just the name itself.

Hiring a trade school graduate for cheaper than a bachelor degree holder could actually wind up being more expensive for an employer, in the long term. If indeed the training doesn't quite pan out and the employee doesn't perform to expectation, odds are they'll get the sack and they'll be replaced by someone who will get higher pay to assure the job gets done. The training costs, the hiring process costs, and any direct business related costs involved would be a turn-off to training inexpensive talent now than hiring a college talent, in the security that said college candidate can perform to standard.


True, some people/places go by name value, but more and more are looking at the cost considerations and what the smart choice is/was for the person applying for the job. Really makes no sense to sit in class and study poetry if one's major is to be an electrical engineer. Trade school teaches that just as well, in a shorter period of time, and for less cost. Employers are learning that.

I'll say again the hiring/training costs are overblown and just leave it at that on my end.

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:I have a bunch of related thoughts here:

1. The "self-entitlement" tag thrown on Generation Y is very annoying. Maybe I'm missing what "self-entitlement" is, but I feel like there's absolutely nothing wrong with attempting to give yourself the best possible life you can, and not quitting on that goal immediately. If one quits at the first hurdle, they will never accomplish their dreams. We could probably do without the whining/excuses part and should instead work a little harder to solve our problems. But I'm not sure just giving up on your/goals dreams is a path to life success either. I also would say that most in this generation don't consider just scraping by through life success; we want a bit more than that.


Self-entitlement is someone granting themselves something they either haven't earned or have no right to.

No one is saying people should ever give up on their dreams, but that really has nothing to do with self-entitlement.

2. Going back to the "independence" point, I don't think there's any reason that people really should ever try to become completely independent; what we should look for, rather, is the ability to be independent. For instance, right now I'm having my parents pay off my school loans by taking out their own loan, and then I'll pay them back so that they can pay the loan back. Why? Well, for me, my parents get a lower interest rate than what I can. For my parents, they can then add that to their "debt", so they can put my siblings through school for cheaper. They also can write that debt off on their taxes. So it's actually a win/win for both of us if they pay back my student loans and then I pay them back. Similarly, I'm having my friends buy all my stuff (that I'll pick out) for my apartment when I move in next month (TV, bed, etc.). Why? Well, a bunch of friends work at various retailers, so they get good discounts on the items. Plus, they all do much more shopping at their stores than I and rack up loyalty points and such. So they win, and I win. I'm not sure why it's a bad idea to have win/win relationships with parents, or anyone else for that matter.


The "ability" to do something is more important than actually doing it? :-? Then why do people do anything? Why don't we all just get credit for what we "could" do?

3. The college diploma may be devalued, since everyone (or it seems everyone) has one, in terms of the monetary value gained. I think the reason for this is the attitude that has come from college graduates in the past ten years, which is that they aren't there to learn, but are there rather just to buy the piece of paper (and pad their resume) so that they can get a job. This means that kids aren't getting the college experience out of college. The college experience rarely comes from information gained from classes directly (though it can, but I'd say I skipped 30% of my classes in college, and that I remember nothing from like 80% of my classes). Sadly, it's difficult to find out which kids have actually gained the ability to learn in college (and some employers are terrible at figuring this out....).

As a student who recently graduated from an extremely expensive private college (luckily I won't be footing the entire bill), I would say that there are two things that made college worthwhile. The first is that college provides a good step-by-step "learning program" for students, that is otherwise hard to find. The "learning program" hones a student's skills in the area of learning. It's possible to find this outside of college, but I think it's extremely difficult to find it on your own. The more valuable thing that college gives you is the ability to spend time and interact with incredibly bright people. I learned 100 times as much from my friends, fellow classmates, professors, etc. about life and whatever just from being on a college campus as I did from sitting in the college classroom. College isn't really about attending class and grinding out a degree (though this does show the ability to advance through a step-by-step learning program, which is what colleges are looking for). The college classes aren't worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. The four years spent on the campus is....


First paragraph sounds like most people I know that attended college. :-D

Second paragraph is confusing though. College taught you "how" to learn? I think I'm not correctly understanding what you are saying, because I learned how to learn something so far back I can't tell you when it was. Rough guess, I'd say first grade. Being around bright people has advantages, but that isn't exclusive to a college campus either.

BitterDodgerFan wrote:uhm... how old is madison?


I'm no spring chicken, so most of you guys have far more energy than me.
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Madison » Thu May 19, 2011 3:05 pm

Just for fun, here's a Wall Street Journal article about the financial end of a degree versus just a high school diploma. And seeing as how it was written just over a year ago, the gap is even smaller now (college tuition has gone up since then, high paying jobs have fallen since then):

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703822404575019082819966538.html
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu May 19, 2011 3:26 pm

Madison wrote:
Even those who make 6 to 7 figures and bypassed college are hard to find. They're not as rare as say the billionaire, but still they're the exception to the rule. For those people, going to college wasn't likely what was best for them because perhaps that would just limit their upside and/or they have the skills to go for it right now than later. Not a lot of college bound students can afford to take that chance for lack of skills, upside, resources, and/or opportunity. There's a very good chance of those kids getting some combination of those four factors in college.


Ok, I got to thinking about this earlier. Maybe we're talking about different things. When you talk about someone opening their own business, are you only thinking of new and revolutionary businesses that haven't been seen before? If so, then I fully agree with you that most fail.

However, that's not what I've been discussing. Take for example a lady I know that opened a ballroom dance studio. Teaching people to dance isn't a new concept or anything, and in the past decade her lowest profit for the year was $65K, with the highest year being $98K. Does she count as someone who started their own business and was successful to you? She does as far as what I have been discussing, and I easily know 10 success stories for every 1 failure as far as people I personally know in the real world (non-internet) that have opened businesses and been successful.


I'm talking about any kind of business and business owner. From the Mom and Pop stores to the high growth startup on the brink of world domination.

There's still a good deal of risk in opening a dance studio. Everything from location, local market, local size, pricing, staffing, etc. A lot of small businesses fail because they don't get all/any of those factors right. Sure, there's plenty of small businesses that enjoy success, like the dance studio owner. There are plenty others that enjoy modest success, there are plenty who do enough to make ends meet, and plenty who just fail too. You're also not accounting for those people for whatever reason couldn't lift their business off the ground.

From my experience, for every 10 people:

1 becomes a rave success (well exceeded expectations)
3 enjoy modest success (meeting expectation or doing a modest bit better than expectation)
3 are doing enough to make ends meet
3 flat out fail

This is something I can't quantify off the top of my head, but from what I've observed from say, restaurants to startups, this tends to be how I'd perceive the rate of success and failure. That's a conservative outlook, perhaps, but it's one I'm more likely to subscribe to. That's just me, however.

My point still holds true. The self-made non-college graduate story is hard to find. Oh, they're most definitely around, but in the numbers you think them to be, I doubt it. Not everyone has the opportunities, skills, and upside to make it on their own with their own business. College tends to be the main source for a lot of people to find those things.

Madison wrote:
I don't want this thread to go on another tangent, but short answer is I don't see Facebook and Twitter going the way of say, AOL and Myspace. There's still some untapped upside and value to be had with Facebook, Twitter, or the next great communication medium to come thereafter.

This is a subject for another thread.


I'll keep it short as well. Facebook has a longer lifespan than Twitter, but neither will withstand the test of time.


Nothing ever withstands the test of time, eventually. That said, I do think some people are exaggerating the lifespan of Facebook/Twitter being cut short later. Many high-growth startups have a 4-5 year lifespan at best, but the likes of Facebook and Twitter are on the cusp of building something lasting like Amazon and eBay, both of whom thriving remnants of the dot-com crash. Facebook and Twitter might one day go the Yahoo route of too much structure and bureaucracy too fast, but that won't be enough for it to fade away eventually (Yahoo certainly hasn't).

I don't "seek out" anything when I check out the news. And I read front page headlines and news as several sites.


I'm sure you don't. I'm just saying it's human nature to remember the articles that support their views (and discard others). It's called a confirmation or affirmation bias.

Madison wrote:I've acknowledged that some employers are determined to hire someone with a college degree. And I haven't said anyone shouldn't get a college degree, just that it isn't worth what most people think it is.


It sure sounds like you do, especially keeping in mind some of your negative personal feelings about college. You've also said that people can learn the same skills they can going straight to the working world than in college. That infers an opinion that college isn't worth it in the end, or that it has marginal payoff.

I don't think anyone is debating a college degree is overvalued. Where we differ is I'm saying that college is still a standard for most employers. Coupled with the experiential aspect of college, a college education still carries value, a lot of value. It's only that there's less value in a college degree because there are more equally talented college grads entering the workforce than in years past, with little to differentiate between them.

Madison wrote:Unless an employer is sending a new hire to a class or school for training, cost of hiring/training is overblown. Makes for a nice tax write-off for the company though.

I'm not saying a company can hire any 18 year old and train them to do a job, but they can hire the right 18 year old and train them to do a job well. Just depends on the quality of the hiring manager and how well he/she reads people, and the quality of the candidates applying for the job.


The monetary and hidden costs of hiring and training could be chickenfeed for bigger companies, but to small and medium sized numbers, it's more substantial.

For example, in my finance days, my company sought to hire another financial analyst and a CFO candidate to take over for my former boss (this was a startup, and a small department). We went six months having to pay recruiting firms (we didn't have an HR department) to actively push us candidates. When they sent over three candidates that met our screening process, they wound up being quite inferior during the interviewing stage despite their experience on paper. It would have been a much bigger cost to then hire one candidate and eventually to let him go (severance) and push the ante for another candidate. We quit the process altogether and hired financial consultants to help out with the legwork.

Madison wrote:You'd be surprised how long companies can get away with underpaying their employees. I know I've been surprised more times than I can count at how little some people are making given the job they do and what similar positions at other companies pay.


It depends on the field, the company, and location. I tend to think people in California are more aware of the prices on their heads, in general, and they'll push for raises/promotions when they realize how much they're worth to the company after completing a few important projects. Also, software engineers here and in the Bay Area have their share of options, to the point employers have to be too careful about underpaying them.
Image
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21672
(Past Year: 452)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Not nineteen forever

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu May 19, 2011 3:28 pm

Madison wrote:True, some people/places go by name value, but more and more are looking at the cost considerations and what the smart choice is/was for the person applying for the job. Really makes no sense to sit in class and study poetry if one's major is to be an electrical engineer. Trade school teaches that just as well, in a shorter period of time, and for less cost. Employers are learning that.

I'll say again the hiring/training costs are overblown and just leave it at that on my end.


Where I live, that just isn't the case.

As far as studying poetry when your major is electrical engineering, again, you're missing the point of college education entirely.
Image
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21672
(Past Year: 452)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Not nineteen forever

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Lofunzo » Thu May 19, 2011 4:11 pm

bigh0rt wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:
Going back to the "independence" point, I don't think there's any reason that people really should ever try to become completely independent; what we should look for, rather, is the ability to be independent. For instance, right now I'm having my parents pay off my school loans by taking out their own loan, and then I'll pay them back so that they can pay the loan back. Why? Well, for me, my parents get a lower interest rate than what I can. For my parents, they can then add that to their "debt", so they can put my siblings through school for cheaper. They also can write that debt off on their taxes. So it's actually a win/win for both of us if they pay back my student loans and then I pay them back. Similarly, I'm having my friends buy all my stuff (that I'll pick out) for my apartment when I move in next month (TV, bed, etc.). Why? Well, a bunch of friends work at various retailers, so they get good discounts on the items. Plus, they all do much more shopping at their stores than I and rack up loyalty points and such. So they win, and I win. I'm not sure why it's a bad idea to have win/win relationships with parents, or anyone else for that matter.


I would never say to avoid doing those things. My point is that, if you do those things, you can't have a parade proclaiming how independent you are.

I asked this openly a few pages ago before the whole college tangent, but I'm interested in your take on it. Let's say, given the cellular phone example we've given, that instead of hopping on my parents' plan and paying them, that they hop on my plan and pay me. Everything about the plan is identical, except I'm the primary line, with the billing address, and they cut me a check every month instead of me to them. Does that change anything, and if so/not, how come? Are they no longer independent, because I'm saving them a few bucks (we're actually saving each other a few bucks mutually, but that's what we'd be doing regardless of whose name the bill was under).

The car insurance would be a different animal, because your rates are determined partially on years of safe driving, whereas the cellular bill is a flat rate no matter who you are.


By definition, I don't see how you can depend on someone for something and consider yourself completely independent. That seems like a contradiction to me. You can be almost independent, pretty independent, or approaching independence but I don't see how you can claim independence when you need someone else for something, no matter how small it is. If you want to share a phone bill, car insurance, etc., I have no issue. I just don't see how you would be able to claim complete independence if you did.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 18)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: unioreimi and 7 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Apr. 18
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Toronto at Cleveland
(2:20 pm)
LA Angels at Detroit
(7:05 pm)
Milwaukee at Pittsburgh
(7:05 pm)
St. Louis at Washington
(7:05 pm)
Miami at Miami
(7:08 pm)
indoors
NY Yankees at Tampa Bay
(7:10 pm)
indoors
Seattle at Seattle
(7:10 pm)
Atlanta at NY Mets
(7:10 pm)
Baltimore at Boston
(7:10 pm)
Chi White Sox at Texas
(8:05 pm)
Minnesota at Kansas City
(8:10 pm)
Philadelphia at Colorado
(8:40 pm)
Houston at Oakland
(10:05 pm)
Arizona at LA Dodgers
(10:10 pm)
San Francisco at San Diego
(10:10 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact