Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to General Talk

Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby urbanbreez » Thu May 19, 2011 7:10 pm

buffalobillsrul2002 wrote:Urban hit it on the head with his point about Comparative/Absolute Advantage. There's no reason to actually be independent (other than to trumpet about it) when the reality is that we all win by not being independent, unless you find intrinsic value in your independence that is greater than what you give up by being dependent on others. That's why North Korea is a failure. Of course, you want the ability to be independent if necessary (or relatively independent if necessary; the reality is that few of us currently have the ability to actually be self-sustaining if society collapsed). That's why the US holds oil reserves instead of drilling everything out now. It just gives you added benefit in "negotiations".

As for the college thing, I'd agree that there are certainly kids going to college who probably shouldn't be, and who likely won't be more successful because of their degree and/or wasted their four years. But it's difficult to figure out if college is for you or not until you go (it's really not at all like high school in any way, at least it wasn't for me). And I'll disagree with anyone who says that "broadening your horizons" isn't the point of college. The course that probably benefited me the most was in college was a course I took in literature (and i'm an engineering/business major). Will I use it to earn me money? No. But the course gave my confidence a big blow originally (i'm bad at poetry; good at lots of other school stuff), but then gave me a boost once I realized I could actually learn stuff if I worked hard. Plus I'm better at having a better understanding of movies now. And learning is a skill. There is no doubt in my mind that college hones your skill of learning tremendously. For me it's been a better source of improving my ability to learn than anything else I've done during the four years between high school and now...

I was beggining to think my post was made with invisable ink but at least one person read it and that's good enough for me.
urbanbreez
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 3200
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Los Angeles. U Jelly?

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Madison » Thu May 19, 2011 7:49 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote::-b

You deserve a lot of credit, Mad. The last few posts really made me laugh. Even running a small business, be it a barbershop, a restaurant, a bar, is difficult. If it looks easy, it could be deceiving.


Wait, do you mean hard as in a lot of work? Sure, running a business is a lot of work, but it isn't hard (a bar for example). Those are two different things.

You'll never fully appreciate the perspective of why a college education matters. End of.


I'd rather earn tens of thousands while getting well-rounded and study what I want to study rather than be told what to study and pay tens of thousands.

:-b

You don't give college students enough credit, do you? I'm sure the elite is more like 5-10% compared to the business world, which is more like the elite 1%. College grads and businesses are apples and oranges, to be fair though.


I guess I don't, but is that my fault or theirs for not showing me?

Erm, no comment, but I do know when I read your posts, I'm entering an enchanted fantasy world. It's brilliant.


I've extended the invite many times and I'll do it again. You want to see the real world, come on down. First beer is on me. ;-D
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu May 19, 2011 8:53 pm

Madison wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote::-b

You deserve a lot of credit, Mad. The last few posts really made me laugh. Even running a small business, be it a barbershop, a restaurant, a bar, is difficult. If it looks easy, it could be deceiving.


Wait, do you mean hard as in a lot of work? Sure, running a business is a lot of work, but it isn't hard (a bar for example). Those are two different things.


Running a business is difficult. Working hard is one part of it, yes. You will work your ass off most of the time, that's a given. Hard work can only take you so far. You need a combination of talent, experience, know-how, passion, and the determination to get through anything. I didn't mention resources, as in people, money, supply, and that's another fundamental dimension to get a business off the ground, let alone to keep the lights on.

Like I said, there's more to running a bar than just leasing a place, building/decorating it, obtaining the licenses, buying the booze, etc. An owner has to decide what kind of a bar he's running. Is it a dive bar, a trendy bar, a gastropub? What kind of clientele or "scene" are you trying to attract? Will it serve food? How will it get a word of mouth following (you need some kind of promotion to provide the impetus towards this)? How much do we charge and how many deals/offers are we running? There's a great deal of marketing thought that goes into opening a bar and it doesn't exactly stop when the doors are open either. That's just one area, wait until the bills start piling in and you have to wonder if you're getting enough through the door, and getting as much $ per table as possible.

Again, you might think it's easy (as in it's not rocket science), but it's difficult. Many small business owners wind up burning out, no matter how successful or screwed up their business is, because they can't handle the stress of it. They and their partners (if applicable) have the most to gain and lose, after all.

Madison wrote:
You'll never fully appreciate the perspective of why a college education matters. End of.


I'd rather earn tens of thousands while getting well-rounded and study what I want to study rather than be told what to study and pay tens of thousands.


Fair play, that's a personal preference and that's all that is. Your perception doesn't dictate what the reality is. The best position for a lot of people is to go through college than to work straight away, as the likelihood of getting a better opportunity later on is greater.

Madison wrote:
:-b

You don't give college students enough credit, do you? I'm sure the elite is more like 5-10% compared to the business world, which is more like the elite 1%. College grads and businesses are apples and oranges, to be fair though.


I guess I don't, but is that my fault or theirs for not showing me?


It's your fault for writing them all off without even knowing them and relying on a generalization to portray them.

Somewhat related, I have a 24 year-old engineer who has been working under my wing now, as something of an apprentice for the last year or so. He does terrific work, really impressive stuff, and he looks up to me like a big brother, I suppose (I'm 5 years older or am going to be this year :-B). I was a tad worried when I hired him, but for me, his talent outweighed everything and he reminds me of myself when I was 23-24, in fact. I've said to him before, don't prove to me or to anyone that you can do the job... prove it to yourself only, that's your ultimate satisfaction. Not to prove it to someone you respect or dislike the most.

Madison wrote:
Erm, no comment, but I do know when I read your posts, I'm entering an enchanted fantasy world. It's brilliant.


I've extended the invite many times and I'll do it again. You want to see the real world, come on down. First beer is on me. ;-D


...and have a beer at your clueless friend's bar, no thanks. ;-)
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby ensanimal » Thu May 19, 2011 10:20 pm

Madison wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:By definition, I don't see how you can depend on someone for something and consider yourself completely independent. That seems like a contradiction to me. You can be almost independent, pretty independent, or approaching independence but I don't see how you can claim independence when you need someone else for something, no matter how small it is. If you want to share a phone bill, car insurance, etc., I have no issue. I just don't see how you would be able to claim complete independence if you did.


See, Lo is a lot nicer about it than I am. Kudos Lo. ;-D

For me, if someone is even a tiny fraction of dependent on someone, then they aren't independent. Either someone is independent or they are not, and it is very black and white as far as I am concerned. Now if they are dependent, then there are varying levels of dependence.


I really hope that none of you speaking of being independent in this way aren't married/living with girlfriends or what not. Do you split the household bills? Shared cell phone plans? Both on the same car insurance? I just want to know if this only relates to your parents, because it really sounds like any type of sharing means you can't be considered independent.

It seems the only independent people in this world are single people, living alone without roommates and working. Having gone to college or not. O:-)
ensanimal
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 10622
(Past Year: 112)
Joined: 14 Dec 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Tim Horton's

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Lofunzo » Thu May 19, 2011 10:25 pm

ensanimal wrote:
Madison wrote:
Lofunzo wrote:By definition, I don't see how you can depend on someone for something and consider yourself completely independent. That seems like a contradiction to me. You can be almost independent, pretty independent, or approaching independence but I don't see how you can claim independence when you need someone else for something, no matter how small it is. If you want to share a phone bill, car insurance, etc., I have no issue. I just don't see how you would be able to claim complete independence if you did.


See, Lo is a lot nicer about it than I am. Kudos Lo. ;-D

For me, if someone is even a tiny fraction of dependent on someone, then they aren't independent. Either someone is independent or they are not, and it is very black and white as far as I am concerned. Now if they are dependent, then there are varying levels of dependence.


I really hope that none of you speaking of being independent in this way aren't married/living with girlfriends or what not. Do you split the household bills? Shared cell phone plans? Both on the same car insurance? I just want to know if this only relates to your parents, because it really sounds like any type of sharing means you can't be considered independent.

It seems the only independent people in this world are single people, living alone without roommates and working. Having gone to college or not. O:-)


My wife pays all of the bills so she is independent and I am dependent upon her.
Image
Lofunzo
Moderator
Moderator

User avatar
ModeratorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe RankerEagle EyeHockey ModPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 23698
(Past Year: 11)
Joined: 9 Jul 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Central Jersey

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Madison » Thu May 19, 2011 11:17 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:Running a business is difficult. Working hard is one part of it, yes. You will work your ass off most of the time, that's a given. Hard work can only take you so far. You need a combination of talent, experience, know-how, passion, and the determination to get through anything. I didn't mention resources, as in people, money, supply, and that's another fundamental dimension to get a business off the ground, let alone to keep the lights on.

Like I said, there's more to running a bar than just leasing a place, building/decorating it, obtaining the licenses, buying the booze, etc. An owner has to decide what kind of a bar he's running. Is it a dive bar, a trendy bar, a gastropub? What kind of clientele or "scene" are you trying to attract? Will it serve food? How will it get a word of mouth following (you need some kind of promotion to provide the impetus towards this)? How much do we charge and how many deals/offers are we running? There's a great deal of marketing thought that goes into opening a bar and it doesn't exactly stop when the doors are open either. That's just one area, wait until the bills start piling in and you have to wonder if you're getting enough through the door, and getting as much $ per table as possible.

Again, you might think it's easy (as in it's not rocket science), but it's difficult. Many small business owners wind up burning out, no matter how successful or screwed up their business is, because they can't handle the stress of it. They and their partners (if applicable) have the most to gain and lose, after all.


Is this where I break out my secret weapon and tell you I helped a friend plan, build, and start a bar from the ground up? (And no, he wasn't the one who failed at it :-b - oh, and I know zero about dance studios, so no secret weapon there :-b .). I wouldn't say how easy it is to start a business if I hadn't done a few myself. ;-)

Fair play, that's a personal preference and that's all that is. Your perception doesn't dictate what the reality is. The best position for a lot of people is to go through college than to work straight away, as the likelihood of getting a better opportunity later on is greater.


In all fairness, everything depends on the individual. And again, I'm not saying people shouldn't go to college, simply that they should temper whatever expectations they have when it comes to what it will do for them.

It's your fault for writing them all off without even knowing them and relying on a generalization to portray them.

Somewhat related, I have a 24 year-old engineer who has been working under my wing now, as something of an apprentice for the last year or so. He does terrific work, really impressive stuff, and he looks up to me like a big brother, I suppose (I'm 5 years older or am going to be this year :-B). I was a tad worried when I hired him, but for me, his talent outweighed everything and he reminds me of myself when I was 23-24, in fact. I've said to him before, don't prove to me or to anyone that you can do the job... prove it to yourself only, that's your ultimate satisfaction. Not to prove it to someone you respect or dislike the most.


If they don't like my opinion of them, the onus is on them to change my opinion.

Glad to hear you found a good kid. Want me to show you 2 bad ones to more than cancel that out? Just because you may have found a good one or even a handful, that doesn't make your opinion right either. You're doing the same generalization thing you're accusing me of. :-D

...and have a beer at your clueless friend's bar, no thanks. ;-)


Tsk, tsk, I said the clueless friend went out of business and closed the doors. So we'd be at the successful friend's bar. Unless you like beautiful topless women like I do, at which point we'd be at a nice gentleman's establishment. O:-)
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby The Artful Dodger » Fri May 20, 2011 1:11 am

Madison wrote:Is this where I break out my secret weapon and tell you I helped a friend plan, build, and start a bar from the ground up? (And no, he wasn't the one who failed at it :-b - oh, and I know zero about dance studios, so no secret weapon there :-b .). I wouldn't say how easy it is to start a business if I hadn't done a few myself. ;-)


Because it's easy for you, doesn't make it so for everyone else. As mentioned earlier, some people are just innately and experientially better at public speaking than others. I'm not likely to know a lot about planning on building a bar, that's simply out of my expertise. I'm likely better served at launching and operating a startup than others, but I wouldn't say it's easy even if I had the experience because it's not. It gets easier with more experience, but it doesn't make it easy.

In all fairness, everything depends on the individual. And again, I'm not saying people shouldn't go to college, simply that they should temper whatever expectations they have when it comes to what it will do for them.


Yes... this is what I've been saying. What works for you, not going to college because you feel it's overvalued and a waste of time doesn't make it good advice for most other people.

If they don't like my opinion of them, the onus is on them to change my opinion.

Glad to hear you found a good kid. Want me to show you 2 bad ones to more than cancel that out? Just because you may have found a good one or even a handful, that doesn't make your opinion right either. You're doing the same generalization thing you're accusing me of. :-D


Yet you're the one insisting you're right, like yours is the only real world.

I'm well aware there are good and bad eggs for any generation, for any age group, for any demographic. I feel you're exaggerating your opinion about a certain group based off what you've seen, a sample bias if you will. It seems like I'm overwhelmingly positive about Generation Y, but I can assure you I'm not. I do my very best to keep an open mind about people, even if I do have my prejudices too (who doesn't). In this case, I'm defending a lot of them from unwarranted criticism and stereotyping which some older folks are prone to doing. In fairness, Gen Y'ers won't be the last generation to be stereotyped for their youth and in 20 years time, I'm sure some will be sitting on the same prickly curmudgeon rocking chair you're sitting on now. :-b

...and BTW, I'm not generalizing anything about you. From everything I've read from you in the past, my opinion of you is you're likely a nice fella, just that you have an innocent (sometimes frightening), quirky way of looking at things. You probably think the same of me, but I don't mind being labeled weird or eccentric; that's a compliment to me. B-)

Madison wrote:
...and have a beer at your clueless friend's bar, no thanks. ;-)


Tsk, tsk, I said the clueless friend went out of business and closed the doors. So we'd be at the successful friend's bar. Unless you like beautiful topless women like I do, at which point we'd be at a nice gentleman's establishment. O:-)


Ha, I was joking about that bit. I know your buddy shut up shop.

If Texas is the real world, well, that's quite a step down from Heaven (California). We'd get reservations to the top restaurants in SoCal, drink at the best pubs with practically the world's beer selection on tap, and two words: Playboy Mansion.
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Madison » Sat May 21, 2011 12:33 am

The Artful Dodger wrote:Because it's easy for you, doesn't make it so for everyone else. As mentioned earlier, some people are just innately and experientially better at public speaking than others. I'm not likely to know a lot about planning on building a bar, that's simply out of my expertise. I'm likely better served at launching and operating a startup than others, but I wouldn't say it's easy even if I had the experience because it's not. It gets easier with more experience, but it doesn't make it easy.


Everyone has things that come to them very easily and things that are just the opposite. There are an awful lot of things that people make harder to do than they really are though.

Yes... this is what I've been saying. What works for you, not going to college because you feel it's overvalued and a waste of time doesn't make it good advice for most other people.


Hard to say what is the best advice for "most" people. You think it's best for the majority to go, I think a big percentage wastes time and money for not enough in return to make it worthwhile. I agree that most benefit from college, but disagree that the benefit is worth the time and money. Minor disagreement really.

Yet you're the one insisting you're right, like yours is the only real world.

I'm well aware there are good and bad eggs for any generation, for any age group, for any demographic. I feel you're exaggerating your opinion about a certain group based off what you've seen, a sample bias if you will. It seems like I'm overwhelmingly positive about Generation Y, but I can assure you I'm not. I do my very best to keep an open mind about people, even if I do have my prejudices too (who doesn't). In this case, I'm defending a lot of them from unwarranted criticism and stereotyping which some older folks are prone to doing. In fairness, Gen Y'ers won't be the last generation to be stereotyped for their youth and in 20 years time, I'm sure some will be sitting on the same prickly curmudgeon rocking chair you're sitting on now. :-b

...and BTW, I'm not generalizing anything about you. From everything I've read from you in the past, my opinion of you is you're likely a nice fella, just that you have an innocent (sometimes frightening), quirky way of looking at things. You probably think the same of me, but I don't mind being labeled weird or eccentric; that's a compliment to me. B-)


Actually no, you're the one who keeps mentioning my opinion of the generation, not me. :-D I confirmed what I think of them, but I've tried to leave it at that.

Nah, I've got a nice soft recliner. :-b

I've always thought you were cool, so no worries there. :-) Contrary to popular belief, discussions like this one are things I enjoy. I like hearing the other side of the argument, and once in awhile (not often I will admit), my tune changes on a topic. I don't have these conversations just to blow it all off and forget about it, or simply to wear out yet another keyboard or anything. :-b

Ha, I was joking about that bit. I know your buddy shut up shop.

If Texas is the real world, well, that's quite a step down from Heaven (California). We'd get reservations to the top restaurants in SoCal, drink at the best pubs with practically the world's beer selection on tap, and two words: Playboy Mansion.


Cali is nice, but I don't do earthquakes or the cost of living there. :-b

Have they fixed the pool at the Playboy Mansion yet? Last I heard the big outbreak of stuff was due to something with the pool. :-o If the problem has been solved, I'm definitely game. :-D
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby The Artful Dodger » Sat May 21, 2011 1:48 am

Madison wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:Because it's easy for you, doesn't make it so for everyone else. As mentioned earlier, some people are just innately and experientially better at public speaking than others. I'm not likely to know a lot about planning on building a bar, that's simply out of my expertise. I'm likely better served at launching and operating a startup than others, but I wouldn't say it's easy even if I had the experience because it's not. It gets easier with more experience, but it doesn't make it easy.


Everyone has things that come to them very easily and things that are just the opposite. There are an awful lot of things that people make harder to do than they really are though.


Oh definitely, there are people who by nature and/or nurture are better/weaker in certain areas. It's easier for people to do certain things, but that doesn't make the feat in itself easy.

For example, my father has probably cooked paella a thousand times or more than that throughout his life. Most times, it's great and there are times where it's better than usual... and times where something is amiss. Repetition and talent combined leads to proficiency, in making things easier but making paella consists of a good deal of ingredients and technique. If you're just slightly off in one step or two, then it comes off not quite to expectation.

Going back on topic, I've known a few people who are serial entrepreneurs, successful in a few ventures under their belt. Success should breed more success for them in their future endeavors, but obviously, that's not always the case later on the road. To be fair, there are factors in play that aren't quite out of control as to why they and their businesses don't perform to expectation.

So, yes, IMO, some things may come easier for people, or seemingly easier, but that doesn't make the goal in itself easy to attain for those people.

Madison wrote:Hard to say what is the best advice for "most" people. You think it's best for the majority to go, I think a big percentage wastes time and money for not enough in return to make it worthwhile. I agree that most benefit from college, but disagree that the benefit is worth the time and money. Minor disagreement really.


Well, my advice to most people is that if they're in a good position to attend college, do it. Now, if they had a more lucrative opportunity to forgo college, well then, it's a different situation that warrants more than one way to assess it.

For a lot of people, their opportunities are limited, especially when they're pursuing a specific goal. You're not likely to get far working your way to becoming a lawyer without a bachelor's degree and law school. For a doctor, it's college and medical school. For aspiring engineers, marketers, economists, or even filmmakers and screenwriters, and so on, they're likely to put themselves in a better position for career advancement going to college than working right away. Most employers won't consider those fields without a degree. If they don't have a degree, their margin for error to impress and convince those employers is greater. They have to create something amazing on their resumes to get their foot in the door. Then, the question becomes how would they get that work in the first place? Without college, it might take someone 5 years and 5 different jobs to scrap their way through and that might not be enough. It's not easy for college grads to get that work either, but they're in an easier position for those jobs, without having to take the extraneous time and effort it takes someone without a degree to get there.

At the end of the day, everyone should be honest about what they have and what they can do, as it applies to moving forward. For a lot of people, the answer is college. I tend to think you view college as a functional kind of education only. Yes, getting a good job is a primary goal, but that's really just one way of looking at it. College is a more complete experience than that, but of course, you'll beg to differ and that's fine. Just that there's more to college than you think.

Madison wrote:Actually no, you're the one who keeps mentioning my opinion of the generation, not me. :-D I confirmed what I think of them, but I've tried to leave it at that.


I keep mentioning it, because it's hard to ignore your opinion during the course of this discussion. I don't expect your opinions to change, but I just want to offer up a different perspective which just so happens to challenge your thinking.

I can understand the skepticism about Generation Y; some of it the criticism is well warranted. I just disagree with that skepticism or negativity extending for the generation. It takes all kinds, in the end.

Madison wrote:Contrary to popular belief, discussions like this one are things I enjoy. I like hearing the other side of the argument, and once in awhile (not often I will admit), my tune changes on a topic. I don't have these conversations just to blow it all off and forget about it, or simply to wear out yet another keyboard or anything. :-b


I enjoy these discussions too. I tend to find GT a bit monotonous with the silliness, in general. It's great when we can talk about serious issues in these parts that really matter... and do so in a spirited, but friendly manner. ;-D

Madison wrote:Cali is nice, but I don't do earthquakes or the cost of living there. :-b

Have they fixed the pool at the Playboy Mansion yet? Last I heard the big outbreak of stuff was due to something with the pool. :-o If the problem has been solved, I'm definitely game. :-D


Understand about the cost of living. We have earthquakes here, but like I always say, they're not as common as others might think... at least the big tremors (knock on wood :-b).

As for the Playboy Mansion pool, I'm not sure. I haven't been to the Playboy Mansion in 5 years myself. Last time I've been was for my friend's birthday party there; his parents are very good friends/neighbors with Hugh Hefner and hence, why he got the luxury to host his party there, not once but twice (I've been twice B-)). It just so happens that his birthday is the day before Halloween and it coincides with Playboy Mansion's infamous Halloween bashes. :-b
Image

It's kinda like the Old Cafe - http://fbc2.freeforums.net
The Artful Dodger
Chief Wikitect
Chief Wikitect

User avatar
CafeholicResponse TeamFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyePick 3 Weekly WinnerMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 21947
(Past Year: 670)
Joined: 3 Feb 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Downloading rice

Re: Job insight.. More $$$ or Benefits?

Postby Madison » Sat May 21, 2011 4:21 am

The Artful Dodger wrote:Oh definitely, there are people who by nature and/or nurture are better/weaker in certain areas. It's easier for people to do certain things, but that doesn't make the feat in itself easy.

For example, my father has probably cooked paella a thousand times or more than that throughout his life. Most times, it's great and there are times where it's better than usual... and times where something is amiss. Repetition and talent combined leads to proficiency, in making things easier but making paella consists of a good deal of ingredients and technique. If you're just slightly off in one step or two, then it comes off not quite to expectation.

Going back on topic, I've known a few people who are serial entrepreneurs, successful in a few ventures under their belt. Success should breed more success for them in their future endeavors, but obviously, that's not always the case later on the road. To be fair, there are factors in play that aren't quite out of control as to why they and their businesses don't perform to expectation.

So, yes, IMO, some things may come easier for people, or seemingly easier, but that doesn't make the goal in itself easy to attain for those people.


I'll agree that some things take a measure of perfection of skill (such as the perfect paella). I bowled for more than a couple of decades and never averaged 300. Shot 300 many times, but didn't average it of course. I believe the record (not mine) is still 256 for one season of 30 weeks or more (90 games). Anyway, there are some things that do require extreme skill and practically perfection every single time to achieve. But those types of things are rather rare.

Serial entrepreneur. I like that. :-D I'm the type to easily get bored and/or cut ties with something where I think the work isn't worth the payoff, so I'm always looking at new ventures.

Well, my advice to most people is that if they're in a good position to attend college, do it. Now, if they had a more lucrative opportunity to forgo college, well then, it's a different situation that warrants more than one way to assess it.

For a lot of people, their opportunities are limited, especially when they're pursuing a specific goal. You're not likely to get far working your way to becoming a lawyer without a bachelor's degree and law school. For a doctor, it's college and medical school. For aspiring engineers, marketers, economists, or even filmmakers and screenwriters, and so on, they're likely to put themselves in a better position for career advancement going to college than working right away. Most employers won't consider those fields without a degree. If they don't have a degree, their margin for error to impress and convince those employers is greater. They have to create something amazing on their resumes to get their foot in the door. Then, the question becomes how would they get that work in the first place? Without college, it might take someone 5 years and 5 different jobs to scrap their way through and that might not be enough. It's not easy for college grads to get that work either, but they're in an easier position for those jobs, without having to take the extraneous time and effort it takes someone without a degree to get there.

At the end of the day, everyone should be honest about what they have and what they can do, as it applies to moving forward. For a lot of people, the answer is college. I tend to think you view college as a functional kind of education only. Yes, getting a good job is a primary goal, but that's really just one way of looking at it. College is a more complete experience than that, but of course, you'll beg to differ and that's fine. Just that there's more to college than you think.


Oh no doubt that one can't become a doctor, lawyer, teacher, etc, without a degree. If the field absolutely requires a degree, there's no choice but to go to college. I get the whole finding work without a degree or experience, it's like credit (financing for a car, house, credit card, etc). How do you get credit when it takes credit to get credit? Pretty wacky. :-D

As to the complete experience of college, I just feel that can be accomplished outside of college.

Ultimately I just think people should take a realistic look at college in every aspect prior to going and decide if the payoff is worth it to them or not. If they think it is, great, more power to them. But everyone should at least really look at what it costs them (time, money, etc) and what they are getting out of it. Article on the front page of Yahoo yesterday or the day before said 60% of graduates can't find a full time job in their field. And of course the people they quoted said stuff like "I thought I'd get a job easily!" and things of that nature. Those are people that didn't stop and look at reality before going to college.

Actually went back in my history, here's the article, and the direct quotes I mentioned:

"I thought getting a job would be a snap," she said.


Different girl:

"When you go to an Ivy League school, you figure this degree will mean something -- that it will guarantee you a job," she said.


http://finance.yahoo.com/career-work/article/112754/recession-lost-generation-cnnmoney

I keep mentioning it, because it's hard to ignore your opinion during the course of this discussion. I don't expect your opinions to change, but I just want to offer up a different perspective which just so happens to challenge your thinking.

I can understand the skepticism about Generation Y; some of it the criticism is well warranted. I just disagree with that skepticism or negativity extending for the generation. It takes all kinds, in the end.


No worries at all, I know there are some good eggs out there. What percentage are good eggs is up for debate. You think it's bigger than I do. No worries at all. :-)

I enjoy these discussions too. I tend to find GT a bit monotonous with the silliness, in general. It's great when we can talk about serious issues in these parts that really matter... and do so in a spirited, but friendly manner. ;-D


I agree about GT (and most of baseball in general lately). I rarely post anymore. But I like discussions like these (real world topics), and they are awesome when everyone involved knows that everyone else is smiling and talking, not fighting or arguing. :-)

Understand about the cost of living. We have earthquakes here, but like I always say, they're not as common as others might think... at least the big tremors (knock on wood :-b).

As for the Playboy Mansion pool, I'm not sure. I haven't been to the Playboy Mansion in 5 years myself. Last time I've been was for my friend's birthday party there; his parents are very good friends/neighbors with Hugh Hefner and hence, why he got the luxury to host his party there, not once but twice (I've been twice B-)). It just so happens that his birthday is the day before Halloween and it coincides with Playboy Mansion's infamous Halloween bashes. :-b


Cost of living scares me the most about Cali. I can't imagine what stuff like my house would cost there. :-o To be fair, we get tornadoes here (and large hail), so it isn't like mother nature really loves us or anything. :-b

Lucky duck. Been there not once, but twice? Very, very cool. If I ever knew Maryse Ouellet would be there for one of their parties, I'd probably have to come up with some brilliant way to crash my way into that party. Maybe a large bribe someone I know would do the trick... O:-) :-b
Yes doctor, I am sick.
Sick of those who are spineless.
Sick of those who feel self-entitled.
Sick of those who are hypocrites.
Yes doctor, an army is forming.
Yes doctor, there will be a war.
Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
Madison
Mod in Retirement
Mod in Retirement

User avatar
ExecutiveEditorCafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe SpotterInnovative MemberCafe MusketeerPick 3 ChampionMatchup Meltdown SurvivorLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 53856
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 29 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Taking Souls...

PreviousNext

Return to General Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: unioreimi and 1 guest

cron
Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Tuesday, Oct. 21
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

San Francisco at Kansas City
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact