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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby mweir145 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:04 pm

SpecialFNK wrote:could he be developing power?
he was drafted in 2008. 69 games in the low minors that year he had 5 HR.
2009 at AA he had 10 HR
2010 at AA he had 20 HR.
the AVG wasn't much. .258 AVG in 2009 and .257 AVG in 2010.
not what I would call Lyle Overbay, who was a good hitter.

The extremely poor version of Lyle Overbay, perhaps?
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby lastingsgriller » Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:06 pm

I don't know a thing about this fellow, but the following does nothing for me..

tracklou wrote:well in las vegas this year .395 BA with a OBP of .438 and slg of .617 . i don't know about you but that is not bad.


Las Vegas and Albuquerque battle each other for #1 place that Ryan Theroit could look like a power hitter..
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby Padsin05 » Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:48 pm

hes the next next Brandon Belt, the former current Jerry Sands.
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby mblax10 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:17 am

Padsin05 wrote:hes the next next Brandon Belt, the former current Jerry Sands.


Accept those guys are actual legit prospects who struggled the first time they faced MLB pitching as most players do. Cooper's a former 1st round pick, but has always been a bat only guy and quickly fell off the radar when he ran into trouble in AA.
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Fri Apr 29, 2011 12:21 am

mweir145 wrote:
tracklou wrote:
mweir145 wrote:He also can't play defense. So he's not the future anything.

i guess it's my mistake for posting anything. i guess i will just leave the posting to you experts

Just take a look at his MILB stats before his April in AAA. Underwhelming to the extreme.

So theres no chance that the hitting coach who turned Bautista into Babe Ruth can make this guy better?
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby jackie hayes » Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:20 am

So, for those who know the guy...

I picked him up in a couple very deep leagues, just based on the suggestion that he'll get some time at dh, and anyone with pt can be useful in these leagues. I looked at his minor league numbers -- they're not awesome, but they don't look immediately write-offable. Okay, ignore 2011 -- hitter's park, small sample, I get that. But 2010 -- avg isn't good, but neither is the babip (.266), from a guy who had a sky-high babip in 2008 and a very pedestrian one in 2009. Not old. I haven't looked for the splits, but at least he is a lefty. Even if the power isn't great, it's not missing entirely, and he's not averse to taking a walk.

I'm looking at these and thinking there's a decent chance I have a .240-.260 hitter with mediocre-but-not-nothing power who won't kill me in runs and rbi, if he's getting enough dh time. Convince me I'm wrong -- why is Cooper worthless in any league?
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby AussieDodger » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:16 am

tracklou wrote:
mweir145 wrote:
kimchi_chigae wrote:If David Cooper is the 1B of the future for the Jays, they are in serious trouble.

He also can't play defense. So he's not the future anything.


i guess it's my mistake for posting anything. i guess i will just leave the posting to you experts


FINALLY someone who understands the cafe ;-7 :-b

Cooper is mildly interesting, .185 ISO and 52/74 BB/K in 2010 aren't to be sniffed at.
However, it was his 2nd full attempt at that level......Lyle Overbay may be a correct comparison
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby lane_anasazi2 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:27 am

jackie hayes wrote:Convince me I'm wrong -- why is Cooper worthless in any league?


Because the bar for offense at 1B is ridiculously high. Replacement level is .270, 70 runs, 75 RBI, 20 HR, 4 SB.

You can literally grab 1B who'll produce that line in the last round of your draft, or off the WW, anytime. Unless you're in the deepest of leagues, there are way more replacement-level 1B than there are teams that could possibly want them.

If this Cooper guy gets SS eligibility, then we can talk. Until then, he's a point of interest in only an incredibly deep league. Oh, and Las Vegas is one of the most hitter-friendly parks in the minors. Hitting .350 there, even with great power, doesn't mean a lot. Ever heard of Rich Poythress? Ever seen him on a top 100 list, or a Mariners top 10? No? What if I told you he led the entire minor leagues last year with 130 RBI? Hit 31 HR? .315 / .381 / .580? He did that in the California League, with High Desert as his home park. You have to understand that there are environments in the minors that inflate offense, A LOT. Not to say that Poythress can't hit, because he obviously can. It's just that no-glove, all-bat 1B/DH guys have to clear a monumentally higher bar with their bat than anyone else, just to be middling.
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby jackie hayes » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:10 am

lane_anasazi2 wrote:
jackie hayes wrote:Convince me I'm wrong -- why is Cooper worthless in any league?


Because the bar for offense at 1B is ridiculously high. Replacement level is .270, 70 runs, 75 RBI, 20 HR, 4 SB.

You can literally grab 1B who'll produce that line in the last round of your draft, or off the WW, anytime. Unless you're in the deepest of leagues, there are way more replacement-level 1B than there are teams that could possibly want them.

If this Cooper guy gets SS eligibility, then we can talk. Until then, he's a point of interest in only an incredibly deep league. Oh, and Las Vegas is one of the most hitter-friendly parks in the minors. Hitting .350 there, even with great power, doesn't mean a lot. Ever heard of Rich Poythress? Ever seen him on a top 100 list, or a Mariners top 10? No? What if I told you he led the entire minor leagues last year with 130 RBI? Hit 31 HR? .315 / .381 / .580? He did that in the California League, with High Desert as his home park. You have to understand that there are environments in the minors that inflate offense, A LOT. Not to say that Poythress can't hit, because he obviously can. It's just that no-glove, all-bat 1B/DH guys have to clear a monumentally higher bar with their bat than anyone else, just to be middling.


Did you read the rest of the post, at all? The part where I pointed out that these are very deep leagues? The part where I dismissed the LV numbers?

Okay, so replacement level is .270, 70 r, 75 rbi, 20 hr, 4 sb -- and I can get that "anytime". So which of the following players is guaranteed to provide that line?

Melvin Mora
Russell Branyan
Don Kelly
Steve Pearce
Jason Giambi
Ross Gload
Chris Davis
Mark Hamilton

That's a complete list of the 1b available who have at least 1 ab and are currently in the majors.

In the other league, there's not a single 1b who meets those criteria. But there is Luke Hughes, Mark Teahen, Andy LaRoche, Matt Treanor, Ryan Langerhans, Ryan Sweeney. (These are some of the top hitters available.) In that group, who's my lead pipe cinch for .270, 70 r, 75 rbi, 20 hr, 4 sb?
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Re: david cooper blue jays future first baseman being called

Postby lane_anasazi2 » Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:00 pm

http://rotoprofessor.com/baseball/?p=9768

^ Article on Cooper.

Yes, I read your post. Did you read the part in mine where I said "Unless you're in the deepest of leagues, there are way more replacement-level 1B than there are teams that could possibly want them."?

Obviously in a 20-team league with a CI spot and two UTL or something, replacement level is going to be way different. My point wasn't that Cooper is un-rosterable. My point was that ***unless you're in a very deep league*** he doesn't provide you with anything that isn't available, all the time, on the WW. I'm not saying he's worthless - but he's not worth something in any league. Hell, I'm at least going to put on on the watch list in my 20-team dynasty.
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