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Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby skjelstrom » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:48 pm

I know this has already been said in an article written on this site, but he is starting to look like mini Cliff Lee version II. Obviously its small sample size and too early to really tell, but his K/BB is very promising and his dominance thus far. Anyone have any other information on this guy that is helpful.

And let me restate this again because I know many of you will say it: I KNOW this is small sample size!
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:54 pm

In Dave Duncan We Trust.
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby slomo007 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:01 pm

bigh0rt wrote:In Dave Duncan We Trust.


Jake Westbrook disagrees.
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:01 pm

slomo007 wrote:
bigh0rt wrote:In Dave Duncan We Trust.


Jake Westbrook disagrees.

Last year he didn't. He'll figure it out. He has the power of the Duncan.
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby sportsaddict » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:05 pm

This is the way Kyle Lohse started both 2008 and 2009 before falling apart and returning to career norms. So we'll see how May goes.

I'm plenty happy with the way he's pitching, but I will reserve judgment until he strings together 2-3 strong months.
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby Ender » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:10 pm

The whole Dave Duncan thing is largely a myth, he is a good pitching coach for sure but he hasn't really turned any bad pitchers into good ones. A manager who values defense over offense and playing in a pitchers park has more to do with it than anything. Most of the Dave Duncan projects have one good luck aided year and revert mostly back to normal the next year though.

Lohse has a history of falling apart so I'm not too optimistic but as long as you aren't relying on him to be like your #3 starter I fail to see a downside in giving him a chance.
Last edited by Ender on Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby kab21 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:15 pm

Kyle Lohse will always be remembered for taking a bat to Gardy's door after being removed from the rotation in 2006. He had a 7.07 ERA with the Twins that season so there was probably good cause for removing him.
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby sportsaddict » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:32 pm

Ender wrote:The whole Dave Duncan thing is largely a myth, he is a good pitching coach for sure but he hasn't really turned any bad pitchers into good ones. A manager who values defense over offense and playing in a pitchers park has more to do with it than anything. Most of the Dave Duncan projects have one good luck aided year and revert mostly back to normal the next year though.

Lohse has a history of falling apart so I'm not too optimistic but as long as you aren't relying on him to be like your #3 starter I fail to see a downside in giving him a chance.


I wouldn't call it a myth. A lot of times, we give Duncan too much credit and steal credit from the pitchers who overachieve so-to-speak. But a lot of the veteran pitchers he works with have success in a Cardinal uniform and THEN revert to normal the next year.

Woody Williams and Chris Carpenter are probably two of his biggest success stories. He also had decent success with acquired veterans like Jeff Suppan, Jason Marquis and Jeff Weaver (at times). Yes, those guys all played with some of the best defensive infields in the NL at the time. But that's Duncan's style-he preaches to pitch to defense.

And it's also worth mentioning that even though Lohse has never pitched like this for a full year, he looks a million times better than he ever did in Minnesota or Cincy.
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby Ender » Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:38 pm

But again Woody Williams had one good year for the Cardinals and it was largely due to an 84% LOB, the rest of his seasons were around his career ERA. Suppan's improvement started in 2001, he had a bad luck year in 2002 and then pitched about exactly like you'd expect an AL pitcher moving to the NL to pitch, his one big year for the cards was more luck than improvement as seen by the FIP/xFIP.

Carpenter is the best example but he took a year off with an injury and came back and had an increase in velocity. He is a harder player to judge than most.

Most of the cases of Dave Duncan fixing a pitcher really seem to be smoke and mirrors that people latch onto. I think he is a good pitching coach for sure but I wouldn't assume he somehow fixes every pitcher they sign like people seem to.
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Re: Kyle Lohse Thread

Postby skjelstrom » Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:07 am

Even if they do revert back to normal the next year, Ill take it this year if Lohse is that guy and let him revert back on someone elses roster next year. :-B
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