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NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby Dan Lambskin » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:21 pm

reading this thread is 10X worse than the 5 minutes i watched of that watery deuce of a title game
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby Metroid » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:04 pm

I agree with Art 100%. While the title game proved to be a snore fest, I loved how this tourney panned out. It was extremely exciting nearly the whole way through and I wouldn't have changed a thing. Except maybe Butler being able to find the basket a little last night. %-6

A bad title game does not change my opinion on the NCAA tourney format one bit.

Also, I find it humorous to imply that only professional sports leagues: "reward the best teams in their sport and give them the best chance of winning a championship." Last I checked, Ohio State, Kansas, Duke, and Pittsburg were all rewarded for their fantastic regular seasons with a #1 seed in the tourney. If they can't get to the title game, that's a them problem, don't blame the system.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby jfg » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:08 pm

What you're failing to admit Wier is that there wasn't a great team this year. Kansas wasn't a great team, Duke wasn't either. There are a couple that might be great next year. Anybody had the chance to win and that's what happened. Every other year an elite team ends up winning it all and usually there are 3-4 elite teams... one of them gets it done. This year there wasn't an elite team.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:35 pm

Metroid wrote:Also, I find it humorous to imply that only professional sports leagues: "reward the best teams in their sport and give them the best chance of winning a championship." Last I checked, Ohio State, Kansas, Duke, and Pittsburg were all rewarded for their fantastic regular seasons with a #1 seed in the tourney. If they can't get to the title game, that's a them problem, don't blame the system.

The point is that's not much of a reward. They still have to get through 3-4 lesser teams that can easily upset them in a one-off tournament format, which creates terrible situations like this year. NCAA basketball is the only sport I know where excellent, lengthy seasons are pretty much ignored in favor of single elimination.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:44 pm

jfg wrote:What you're failing to admit Wier is that there wasn't a great team this year. Kansas wasn't a great team, Duke wasn't either. There are a couple that might be great next year. Anybody had the chance to win and that's what happened. Every other year an elite team ends up winning it all and usually there are 3-4 elite teams... one of them gets it done. This year there wasn't an elite team.

To an extent, you're right. I don't think I would rank any of these teams with UNC in '09 or KU/Memphis in '08. But Ohio State, Kansas, Duke, and Pittsburgh were the class of the NCAA, and markedly better than the rest of the competition throughout the season.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby jfg » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:08 am

Elite teams have small flaws which are covered by their strengths although they might fall into a terrible matchup where those tiny flaws are exploited. All four of those teams had major flaws that didn't even need a bad matchup to get exposed. It was a free for all and not the norm of what the NCAA tourney usually is.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:51 am

A few things:

First, while the BCS is as close as football can realistically get to "getting the champion right", it's anything but perfect. And it really is unfortunate to see undefeated teams not even have the chance to play for a title, as has already happened a few times. Plus (and there's nothing really one can do about this), all the BCS system does is just create a pseudo-tournament, which is basically single-elimination for determining the national champion (sometimes double if people like you). Most people like to call this the "regular season". Are you really sure that the "best team" in college football always wins the title, that they don't have a slip-up or get into a bad matchup that costs them a national title shot? Furthermore, the "best team" doesn't always win that BCS title game. Yeah, it does guarantee that two good teams play in it, but sometimes there is one clear "best team" during the regular season and they don't win that game.

Second, for all college sports, the championships really don't do a good job of determining the best team. I guess you could maybe argue for a smaller single-elimination tournament to determine the champion, but I'm not sure that would be much better; it's really pretty difficult to figure out exactly where to draw the cut line. And having series to determine the champion isn't really feasible in college basketball; some of these kids do have school (maybe not at some of the big basketball powerhouses, but there are schools where these kids do actually attend class) and it's not feasible to pull kids out of class for literally 3 weeks straight (which is what would be required to even do an 8-team tournament with 5-game series'). So therefore you are stuck in some type of single-elimination format.

Finally, there's a big difference between being the best team throughout the regular season and being the best team during the postseason. Honestly, I'm convinced after seeing this tournament and the Big East tournament that UConn is in the upper echelon (top 10) of teams in the country. That's 11 consecutive games UConn won to end the season. And for me, wins in November don't tell me a whole lot about who the best team in March is; teams can improve durastically within 3.5 months....
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby bigken117 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 12:47 pm

the BCS is terrible and college football should have a tournament.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:04 pm

jfg wrote:Elite teams have small flaws which are covered by their strengths although they might fall into a terrible matchup where those tiny flaws are exploited. All four of those teams had major flaws that didn't even need a bad matchup to get exposed. It was a free for all and not the norm of what the NCAA tourney usually is.

What were OSU or KU's major flaws? Both were among the best offensive and defensive teams in the country (when you only lose two out of 35, that's a sign that you don't have many flaws) and both had quality front and back courts.

OSU lost a close game on a final shot to a very good team in Kentucky. If they hadn't, they likely would be national champions right now. KU choked to a much worse team that rained threes on them all game (surprising, because KU's three point defense was one of the best in the country). Richmond was essentially the same matchup in the previous round, a team that relied on threes and jump shooting to get where they were, but KU blew them out.

The losses weren't because either of them had any inherent weaknesses, it was because Kentucky is a damn good team that played OSU about as good as you can play them and because VCU had a fluky hot streak from behind the arc.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:17 pm

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