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NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:44 pm

Mugrila wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Two mediocre teams lead to one of the worst NCAA finals in history. Can't say I'm surprised.

And re: title, I've been saying the NCAA tourney was a crapshoot for years, even when KU won. None of this is new, although usually you have at least one elite team in the Final Four.


We've heard your view 3 times, move along.

Think of it as three times the education. A great deal.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:52 pm

Do you actually think anyone here didn't know the NCAA Tournament was heavily impacted by luck until you came and dropped your wisdom on all of us? Of course luck is a huge factor. That's what lot's of people like about it. Nobody thinks Butler was the second-best team in the nation. Hardly anyone thinks UCONN was the best team, but that's what many of us enjoy about the tournament. A team that's not that great can get hot and take down a powerhouse. If all you want is for the most likely result to occur, just run a simulation and ignore the actual games.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:56 pm

Art (or Met, or anybody that simply loves the tournament), was that the exciting national championship final that you wanted to see? A middle of the road BE team vs. a team that came 2nd in the Horizon? I couldn't have been more bored with it. It was just terrible basketball, and it was a product of that crapshoot. Simulations? I simply want to see the best get what they deserve. It's no coincidence that the best make for the most entertaining and competitive games (the closest we got this year to that kind of game was probably Ohio State and Kentucky).

Remember Auburn vs. Oregon in January? That's where it's at.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby urbanbreez » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:11 pm

mweir145 wrote:Two mediocre teams lead to one of the worst NCAA finals in history. Can't say I'm surprised.

And re: title, I've been saying the NCAA tourney was a crapshoot for years, even when KU won. None of this is new, although usually you have at least one elite team in the Final Four.

did you even watch the games or do you just enjoy going full retard? uconn won their conference tournament and proceeded to dominate march madness with professional level precision, skill, and execution.

fun fact about your "mediocre" team: on the season, uconn had the best neutral court win percentage against ranked opponents. if you would have done your homework, you could have made money on that observation instead of being all hurr durr mediocre durr with a broke ass bracket.

kemba walker is easily one of the best college players in the country and uconn's length is underrated. butler's two consecutive trips to the finals leads me to think them above "mediocre" but i'm crazy, so what do i know.

problem? never mind, as i type this, i recall you being a KU homer (butthurt/mad/jelly) so i'll just stop right here.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:31 pm

urbanbreez wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Two mediocre teams lead to one of the worst NCAA finals in history. Can't say I'm surprised.

And re: title, I've been saying the NCAA tourney was a crapshoot for years, even when KU won. None of this is new, although usually you have at least one elite team in the Final Four.

did you even watch the games or do you just enjoy going full retard? uconn won their conference tournament and proceeded to dominate march madness with professional level precision, skill, and execution.

I think I probably watched 9 of their 11 games over that stretch, and about 20 of their games over the full season. Pittsburgh was the only elite team in the BE, but there were probably three or four teams better than UConn during the season that I saw. It was an impressive hot streak to end the season (and a bit luck-filled), but that's all it was.

fun fact about your "mediocre" team: on the season, uconn had the best neutral court win percentage against ranked opponents on the season. if you would have done your homework, you could have made money on that observation instead of being all hurr durr mediocre durr with a broke ass bracket.

I didn't say UConn was a bad team. On my bracket, I had them going to the E8 because I didn't completely buy SDSU's success. Anybody picking them over Duke would have been playing against the odds, though.

As for money, well I'd never bet seriously on any NCAA tournament bracket or pool. It's a fool's bet, you won't ever gain in the long run.

kemba walker is easily one of the best college players in the country and uconn's length is underrated. butler's two consecutive trips to the finals leads me to think them above "mediocre" but i'm crazy, so what do i know.

Kemba Walker is easily one of the more overrated players in the country, regularly shooting terrible percentages and making bad plays. The fact that he's projected to be a lottery pick says more about the quality of the draft than his current skill level.

And Butler? They were good last year with Hayward, but this year? Now it's my turn to ask...did you watch any of their games at all? They had absolutely no size and were lucky not to run into a team with scoring bigs in the tournament (outside of ODU, who they nearly lost to in the 1st round, winning on the final shot). There's a reason they didn't even win their own conference.

problem? never mind, as i type this, i recall you being a KU homer (butthurt/mad/jelly) so i'll just stop right here.

You didn't recall my KU fanship a few pages ago (and I don't really post about it ever), so I don't buy that either.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:43 pm

mweir145 wrote:Art (or Met, or anybody that simply loves the tournament), was that the exciting national championship final that you wanted to see? A middle of the road BE team vs. a team that came 2nd in the Horizon? I couldn't have been more bored with it. It was just terrible basketball, and it was a product of that crapshoot. Simulations? I simply want to see the best get what they deserve. It's no coincidence that the best make for the most entertaining and competitive games (the closest we got this year to that kind of game was probably Ohio State and Kentucky).

Remember Auburn vs. Oregon in January? That's where it's at.

I'll take an exciting tournament with a bad final over the best teams winning every game any day. In fact, I didn't even watch last night's game. I'm one of the last people I know who still likes and defends the BCS system. I absolutely do not want a playoff in football. That said, you seem to have selective memory of the BCS Championship Game. Three quarters of that game was poorly played and sloppy. The only reason people think of it as a good game is because it was close, not because the two teams played like the best in the country.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby urbanbreez » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:07 pm

Connecticut also entered the championship game with a strong strength of schedule which includes wins over Michigan State, Kentucky (twice), Texas, Villanova, Tennessee, Marquette, Georgetown (twice), Cincinnati (twice), Pittsburgh, Louisville and Arizona.

*see bold and underlined section for cause of his massive butthurt.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:09 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:I'll take an exciting tournament with a bad final over the best teams winning every game any day. In fact, I didn't even watch last night's game. I'm one of the last people I know who still likes and defends the BCS system. I absolutely do not want a playoff in football.

Why don't we just play an "exciting tournament" in every league or sport, then? If single elimination provides the most excitement, let's just do it in baseball one of these years. Maybe the Pirates can go on a 5 game winning streak and win the World Series.

The reason professional leagues don't do that, of course, is because they wish to reward the best teams in their sport and give them the best chance of winning a championship. That should be the goal of the NCAA, but it isn't.

That said, you seem to have selective memory of the BCS Championship Game. Three quarters of that game was poorly played and sloppy. The only reason people think of it as a good game is because it was close, not because the two teams played like the best in the country.

They didn't play their best, but much of that was product of two great defenses facing off.
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby mweir145 » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:10 pm

urbanbreez wrote:Connecticut also entered the championship game with a strong strength of schedule which includes wins over Michigan State, Kentucky (twice), Texas, Villanova, Tennessee, Marquette, Georgetown (twice), Cincinnati (twice), Pittsburgh, Louisville and Arizona.

*see bold and underlined section for cause of his massive butthurt.

Being the huge college basketball fan you are, you do realize there's a difference between KU (Kansas) and UK (Kentucky), right?
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Re: NCAA tourney - nothing but luck because your team lost

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Apr 05, 2011 7:36 pm

mweir145 wrote:Why don't we just play an "exciting tournament" in every league or sport, then? If single elimination provides the most excitement, let's just do it in baseball one of these years. Maybe the Pirates can go on a 5 game winning streak and win the World Series.

The reason professional leagues don't do that, of course, is because they wish to reward the best teams in their sport and give them the best chance of winning a championship. That should be the goal of the NCAA, but it isn't.


I get the impression you'll like soccer. Aside from MLS, winning a regular season championship and a knockout tournament are two separate entities. The best team generally wins the league every year, but even then, there's some luck involved. In the knockout cups, the best team usually doesn't win (the English FA Cup is a lot like March Madness), but in general, there's at least a top league side in the semifinals/final. I digress though.

I love the NCAA tournament. I consider myself a casual college basketball observer, but like most, I think it's the best determinant to crowning a champion... especially over the last decade-plus, parity has gotten better and teams tend to match up better than they used to. Success in the regular season indicates consistency more than skill. In UConn's case, whatever lull they had in conference doesn't perfectly sum up what they are as a team as well, and it took the big games in which they came up clutch in to show that quality. Also, these are college players who still have the responsibility to pursue an education (assuming most don't stick around the NBA). Making them play extra games to determine the "best team" to win a title is unnecessary. That's sort of how I feel about the BCS as well.
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