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Keeper setup - a few questions

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Keeper setup - a few questions

Postby cs3 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:22 pm

Im in a first year keeper league where 5 players will be kept. Next year you will lose a draft pick in the round each of your keepers was originally drafted, (essentially if after the season you keep a player drafted from round 5, he will be your 5th round pick next year)
My questions are:
(1) do most leagues limit how many players you can keep from a particular round?
For example if one team amasses 3 first round players via trade, and wishes to keep them all, do you just assign those keepers as the owners first 3 picks? Or do you say each owner can only keep 1 first rounder?

(2) Do you guys recommend any penalty for keeping the same player multiple years in a row? Like if you keep a your 10th round pick from year one, then in year 2 you will not have a 10th rounder. If you decide to keep that same player again in year 3, do you still lose only a 10th round pick, or do you bump up the "keeper round" by X number of rounds?
So for example if X=3, instead of losing a 10th rounder, now you lose a 7 rounder, and the following year if you wish to keep him again you lose a 4th round pick... ?

(3) How would an in-season trade of a keeper affect the rules that apply to (2) above?
in most leagues does the player maintain his "# of keeper years" + the draft pick lost, regardless of what team he goes to until he is no longer kept and returns to the draft? Or when a player is traded do leagues generally assign the new owner the original round the player was drafted as lost draft pick?
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Re: Keeper setup - a few questions

Postby cs3 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:30 am

anyone out there running a keeper league?
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Re: Keeper setup - a few questions

Postby Matthias » Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:27 pm

1) Yes. Most leagues if someone wanted to keep 2 players from the same round, then one of them would have to be from the one before. So if you have 2 guys who were 3rd rounders, then you have to give up your 3rd rounder and your 2nd rounder.

Using this, you can't keep more than one first rounder (which is a good idea to keep things fresh, anyway). Any time a player's keeper round goes below 1, you just can't keep them.

2) Yes. Exactly what you decide is up to you but I'd do something that grew, like 1 round, 3 rounds, 6 rounds, 10 rounds.

3) Trades shouldn't change keeper status. They are what they are.
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Re: Keeper setup - a few questions

Postby cs3 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:54 pm

Matthias wrote:1) Yes. Most leagues if someone wanted to keep 2 players from the same round, then one of them would have to be from the one before. So if you have 2 guys who were 3rd rounders, then you have to give up your 3rd rounder and your 2nd rounder.

Using this, you can't keep more than one first rounder (which is a good idea to keep things fresh, anyway). Any time a player's keeper round goes below 1, you just can't keep them.
thanks, this makes tons of sense and ill suggest it to my league. i dont like the idea of one or 2 teams stockpiling all the first round talent

2) Yes. Exactly what you decide is up to you but I'd do something that grew, like 1 round, 3 rounds, 6 rounds, 10 rounds.
so this is essentially limiting the # of yrs a player can be kept, correct?
using this type of system would you everl use term-length contracts or no?


3) Trades shouldn't change keeper status. They are what they are.

thanks again! appreciate your input
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Re: Keeper setup - a few questions

Postby Matthias » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:45 am

cs3 wrote:
Matthias wrote:1) Yes. Most leagues if someone wanted to keep 2 players from the same round, then one of them would have to be from the one before. So if you have 2 guys who were 3rd rounders, then you have to give up your 3rd rounder and your 2nd rounder.

Using this, you can't keep more than one first rounder (which is a good idea to keep things fresh, anyway). Any time a player's keeper round goes below 1, you just can't keep them.
thanks, this makes tons of sense and ill suggest it to my league. i dont like the idea of one or 2 teams stockpiling all the first round talent

2) Yes. Exactly what you decide is up to you but I'd do something that grew, like 1 round, 3 rounds, 6 rounds, 10 rounds.
so this is essentially limiting the # of yrs a player can be kept, correct?
using this type of system would you everl use term-length contracts or no?

Right. If you do your keeper penalties right, you don't ever have to worry about contracts which just turn things messy. We do an auction league where the salary increases are $3, $5, $10, $10, $10..... and if you get a young star in their breakout year, you'll get them at a good price for 3-4 seasons which really is long enough when you think about it. And then we don't screw around with any contracts or years or whatever.... if the player is worth keeping, they're kept. If they're not, they aren't. It's much less hassle.

3) Trades shouldn't change keeper status. They are what they are.

thanks again! appreciate your input
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Re: Keeper setup - a few questions

Postby Slapweasel » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:14 am

#1. Once a player reaches "Round 1", he can only be "Kept" once. You cannot "amass" first-round Keepers. That does not mean that "first-round-worthy" players can't be "Kept".

#2. If you are basing the draft on "Round-Based-Keepers", (which I think you are), they should "advance" AFTER they are "Kept" for the second time.

#3. "Keepers" should advance three rounds every year after the first year. If you drafted David Price in the 15th, you "Keep" him in the 15th in 2011. In 2012, he "advances" to the 12th-Round. In 2013, he "advances" to the 9th-Round... and so on.

#4. This would mean that anyone "Kept" within the first three rounds would be "Keepable" ONLY ONCE This allows for "turnover" and also rewards managers for taking late-round excellence. You, as Commissioner, are responsible for letting the League know about "expiring contracts".

#5. Trades are the hardest part of a league like this. Assessing "value" IS THE HARDEST PART OF ANY COMMISSIONER'S JOB!!! You are going to hear all sorts of opinions and you'd better be able to defend against them ALL. (I employ an "advisory panel" of three other trusted owners.) I know all sorts of shit and I love talking about my opinion -but- I have the hardest time discussing "value".
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Re: Keeper setup - a few questions

Postby cs3 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:33 pm

Slapweasel wrote:#1. Once a player reaches "Round 1", he can only be "Kept" once. You cannot "amass" first-round Keepers. That does not mean that "first-round-worthy" players can't be "Kept".

#2. If you are basing the draft on "Round-Based-Keepers", (which I think you are), they should "advance" AFTER they are "Kept" for the second time.

#3. "Keepers" should advance three rounds every year after the first year. If you drafted David Price in the 15th, you "Keep" him in the 15th in 2011. In 2012, he "advances" to the 12th-Round. In 2013, he "advances" to the 9th-Round... and so on.

#4. This would mean that anyone "Kept" within the first three rounds would be "Keepable" ONLY ONCE This allows for "turnover" and also rewards managers for taking late-round excellence. You, as Commissioner, are responsible for letting the League know about "expiring contracts".

yes, this was my intention. so in the second year, if an owner wishes, he may keep a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round player. the following year there will be no way for that owner (or any owner) to keep more than 1 of those players on any single team.
are you also saying that if you keep a guy from rounds 1-3, then the following year no matter what, nobody can keep those players?

So you are also saying that once a player is kept with 1st round status, he cant be kept the following yr by any team, correct?
Im trying to decide if it really would be that bad to allow each team to be able to effectively keep one player indefinitely. in practice i dont think it would be a problem because at most this would be 12 players total, and in reality how many players remain 1st round talent for more than a few years in a row?

I suppose the more keepers each team is allowed, the less of an issue this would be. (extreme example, in a one player keeper league the guy with Pujols would be at a HUGE advantage over everyone since like 2003.
In a 15 keeper league the guy who identifies and drafts the most talent in later rounds would be setter up for the future, with much less emphasis on who his "1st round keeper" may be")


#5. Trades are the hardest part of a league like this. Assessing "value" IS THE HARDEST PART OF ANY COMMISSIONER'S JOB!!! You are going to hear all sorts of opinions and you'd better be able to defend against them ALL. (I employ an "advisory panel" of three other trusted owners.) I know all sorts of shit and I love talking about my opinion -but- I have the hardest time discussing "value".
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