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Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:10 am

gravenewworld wrote:Made it to the championship!

What can I say, the strategy worked, I did my job and got my team to the title round, all that matters now is just a bit of luck.


Get a load of this, I just defeated a team with this offense, losing every offensive stat except stolen bases:

C: Santana
1b: votto/butler
2b: j. weeks
SS: Bonifacio
3B: Zimmerman
OF: J Upton, BJ Upton, Zobrist/Crawford


Except I dominated and won every pitching category so got the win 6-4 this week .


The sweeney plan..............it worked, although I did make the right moves throughout the season. I mean how else do you explain how I finished dead last inthe league in RBI and HR, and 3rd to last in runs, but not only clinched the division title, but also made it to the championship?


Explanation:
with this strategy you can beat public leaguers who doesnt stream against you.
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moment." - Qui-Gon Jinn (keeper league expert?)
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby kab21 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:26 pm

I think the key to H2H and why this was successful is investing in pitching. I used my first 4 picks on hitters (Pujols, Holliday, Uggla and McCann) and then went pitching heavy after that. The rest of my offense was solid HR hitters late in the draft and off the waiver wire.

Closers are still a big X-factor imo. There is a lot of turnover and imo you'll need to draft 5 to ensure winning saves every week. And not lose any midseason. Case in point I lost saves in the two playoff matchups despite having 4 closers. The final week (3rd place matchup) I got a total of 3 saves.

Could you verify this as your dominant pitching staff?
Lee, Lincecum, Oswalt, Kuroda, Buehrle, Niemann, Bedard, Latos, Cordero, Valverde, Bailey, Salas.

If it is I'm not as impressed as I thought initially.
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:45 pm

Syfo-Dyas wrote:Explanation:
with this strategy you can beat public leaguers who doesnt stream against you.


wait, was this strategy used in a public league? or was this a serious money league?
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby Tennessee Jed » Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:40 pm

I'm currently on pace to win my championship and won the regular season by 12 games and my highest home-run total on my team is Tulo with 30, rbi is Cano with 116.

I accidentally employed this strategy in my draft targeting 20/20 guys. I ended up with Bourn, Stubbs, Crisp and a few others who have ~20 sb's. Our league is very deep however (we start 2 at each position and 6 OF, 2 UTIL) so I could afford to start speedsters who only help in 1 or 2 categories, and the gap between teams with good pitching (like mine) and bad pitching is really big. I think out of 20 matchups this year, I went 17-3 in K's, W's and S's. However, I also managed my team well, adding guys like Trumbo and Avila early on, and trading Youkilis for Price 5 minutes before the deadline and using Encarnacion in his place. I began the season with a steals heavy team, and ended up with a well rounded one.

My pitching looks like Hamels, Lincecum, Price, Hellickson, Anibal Sanchez, Lohse to name a few. Also have guys like Bills, Morrow, Karstens, and Tomlin (til he got hurt). Closers: Walden, Santos, Putz, League, Melancon, and got Guerra in the Price/Youk trade. (only drafted Putz and Walden)

I won SB's and R's 19 out of 20 matchups, so with my offense and pitching combined, I was guaranteed at least 5 categories out of 10 every week.

This was a $200 buy in Dynasty league, with the same group of guys I've been playing with since high school so it is competitive.

In h2h, I always try and build a strong pitching staff, usually using all but 1 or 2 of my bench spots on starters that I can pick and choose my matchups with. It really helps going into the last 2 days of a matchup week knowing you have a 5 or 6 start advantage on your opponent. How you strategize though really depends on your league-mates and the landscape of the league.
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby gravenewworld » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:31 pm

BitterDodgerFan wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:Explanation:
with this strategy you can beat public leaguers who doesnt stream against you.


wait, was this strategy used in a public league? or was this a serious money league?




This was in a private league, with people that have been playing for over a decade. We have a limit of 3 pickups per week to prevent streaming.


I don't know why anyone in their right mind would waste time in a league that allows streaming. Streaming isn't baseball. One team shouldn't lose because they have a 9 man rotation while the other team has the equivalent to a 20 man rotation.

Even if you stream, it is still quite difficult to beat. Streamers typically lose ERA and WHIP, and it is almost impossible to stream for SVs. If you ahve a good staff, 5 closers, and a ton of leadoff hitters that steal you can likely R, SB, AVG, SV, ERA, WHIP against a streamer. You even have room to lose 1 category for a 5-5 tie.
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby gravenewworld » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:36 pm

kab21 wrote:
Lee, Lincecum, Oswalt, Kuroda, Buehrle, Niemann, Bedard, Latos, Cordero, Valverde, Bailey, Salas.

If it is I'm not as impressed as I thought initially.



Current staff: Lee, Lincecum, Marcum, Kuroda, Latos, Strausburg, Niemann, Dickey, Surkamp, Bailey, Valverde, Cordero, Motte (terrible week), League.


Now you may not think that that is not a ridiculously loaded pitching staff, but in a 12 man league, pitching is often diluted. Most teams don't even have more than 1 top tier ace. How can you argue with the results of a full season of stats? With my staff I was #2 in ERA, #3 in WHIP, #2 in Ks, and #1 in SVs.
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby gravenewworld » Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:42 pm

Tennessee Jed wrote:I'm currently on pace to win my championship and won the regular season by 12 games and my highest home-run total on my team is Tulo with 30, rbi is Cano with 116.

I accidentally employed this strategy in my draft targeting 20/20 guys. I ended up with Bourn, Stubbs, Crisp and a few others who have ~20 sb's. Our league is very deep however (we start 2 at each position and 6 OF, 2 UTIL) so I could afford to start speedsters who only help in 1 or 2 categories, and the gap between teams with good pitching (like mine) and bad pitching is really big. I think out of 20 matchups this year, I went 17-3 in K's, W's and S's. However, I also managed my team well, adding guys like Trumbo and Avila early on, and trading Youkilis for Price 5 minutes before the deadline and using Encarnacion in his place. I began the season with a steals heavy team, and ended up with a well rounded one.

My pitching looks like Hamels, Lincecum, Price, Hellickson, Anibal Sanchez, Lohse to name a few. Also have guys like Bills, Morrow, Karstens, and Tomlin (til he got hurt). Closers: Walden, Santos, Putz, League, Melancon, and got Guerra in the Price/Youk trade. (only drafted Putz and Walden)

I won SB's and R's 19 out of 20 matchups, so with my offense and pitching combined, I was guaranteed at least 5 categories out of 10 every week.

This was a $200 buy in Dynasty league, with the same group of guys I've been playing with since high school so it is competitive.

In h2h, I always try and build a strong pitching staff, usually using all but 1 or 2 of my bench spots on starters that I can pick and choose my matchups with. It really helps going into the last 2 days of a matchup week knowing you have a 5 or 6 start advantage on your opponent. How you strategize though really depends on your league-mates and the landscape of the league.



I concur completely. I've looked over my leagues history of stats the past 5 years. There is a VERY strong correlation between the best teams and the quality of their pitching, and less of a correlation with their hitting statistics.

These days there is almost completely 100% perfect information out there on players. If you follow traditional fantasy baseball strategy and value power hitters, build an OK ,but not superb pitching staff to make a well balanced team you are just gambling and relying on luck to win. With perfect information, every team employs the same strategy. When every player has the same strategy and the same information available, the entire system relies on luck to win. The only way to consistently try to beat the system is to pursue unorthodox styles of play (sweeney plane for example). By specializing in a few categories you can distort the value of players in your favor and rely less on luck to win.


Like you said, it's the gap in pitching that makes your team really good. Most teams spend lots of early round picks on hitters. While everyone is drafting hitting early, if you get away with getting a stranglehold on pitching by using all of your early picks on pitching rather than hitting, you've created scarcity. if you create scarcity and own the commodity that is scarce, you have a monumental advantage.
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby kab21 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:43 pm

gravenewworld wrote:
kab21 wrote:
Lee, Lincecum, Oswalt, Kuroda, Buehrle, Niemann, Bedard, Latos, Cordero, Valverde, Bailey, Salas.

If it is I'm not as impressed as I thought initially.



Current staff: Lee, Lincecum, Marcum, Kuroda, Latos, Strausburg, Niemann, Dickey, Surkamp, Bailey, Valverde, Cordero, Motte (terrible week), League.


Now you may not think that that is not a ridiculously loaded pitching staff, but in a 12 man league, pitching is often diluted. Most teams don't even have more than 1 top tier ace. How can you argue with the results of a full season of stats? With my staff I was #2 in ERA, #3 in WHIP, #2 in Ks, and #1 in SVs.


It's good but I didn't feel that I drafted heavily in pitching and come close to matching that. But I'm convinced that pitching = winners. Especially loading up in the 5th rd or later since that gives you 4 elite hitters.

14 tm league - Lester, Hamels, Price, Beckett, Garza and Romero - Price was acquired in a DHudson/BAnderson trade - 1st, 1st, 2nd, 5th, 8th (saves)
12 tm league - Verlander, Gallardo, Gio, DHudson, Romero, Bumgarner, 2nd half Javy, billingsley and Holland (I also traded Weaver for RZim early :~( ) - 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st and 4th (saves)
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby Syfo-Dyas » Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:53 am

gravenewworld wrote:
BitterDodgerFan wrote:
Syfo-Dyas wrote:Explanation:
with this strategy you can beat public leaguers who doesnt stream against you.


wait, was this strategy used in a public league? or was this a serious money league?




This was in a private league, with people that have been playing for over a decade. We have a limit of 3 pickups per week to prevent streaming.


If you eliminated streaming, than this strategy should work most of the times, but still can be beaten.
But I assume you don't use Yahoo's default 10 IP limit, and have the limit set over 20, so no one can take ERA and WHIP by using only relievers. :-D


gravenewworld wrote:I don't know why anyone in their right mind would waste time in a league that allows streaming. Streaming isn't baseball. One team shouldn't lose because they have a 9 man rotation while the other team has the equivalent to a 20 man rotation.


Exactly what Im saying for years.

gravenewworld wrote:Even if you stream, it is still quite difficult to beat. Streamers typically lose ERA and WHIP, and it is almost impossible to stream for SVs. If you ahve a good staff, 5 closers, and a ton of leadoff hitters that steal you can likely R, SB, AVG, SV, ERA, WHIP against a streamer. You even have room to lose 1 category for a 5-5 tie.


You assume that no one else is drafting closers. In my leagues there are several people always paying big bucks for closers. So 5 closers isn't an assurance that you win saves.
I even lost a matchup with 4 closers vs a team that had only 2.
But if a streamer only drafts closers then your in trouble.
And it's not difficult to beat you at all.
Streamers pick up 3-4 starters daily, so they will take K's for sure. And they have a better chance to get Wins too.
And don't assume to win Runs either! This was already discussed earlier in this or in another forum.
So streamer takes the 4 hitting cats, Wins and Ks, plus got 5 closers too.
You lose.
No effort needed.
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moment." - Qui-Gon Jinn (keeper league expert?)
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Re: Anyone ever employ a steals focused strategy?

Postby gravenewworld » Thu Sep 29, 2011 1:04 am

CHAMP!!!


Results speak for themselves. You guys can debate it all you want. I'll be busy carrying the trophy in my league.



What a finish to the fantasy baseball season. My champ matchup came down to the wire. Result ended up in a 5-5 tie, but since yahoo determines tie breakers according to win% in the regular season I win (beat the team 7-3 and tied).


Dee Gordon is my new man crush. What a GOAT pick up.
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