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How can I add OBP to my standard 5x5 league?

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How can I add OBP to my standard 5x5 league?

Postby XR21 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:35 pm

I want to account for OBP in my standard 5x5 yahoo league, but I am worried that AVG and OBP are too tied together, where if you win one, you win the other. What category could I add to the pitching side that would offset that? I'm thinking quality start?
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Re: How can I add OBP to my standard 5x5 league?

Postby footcow » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:24 pm

If you are going to do OBP, I would remove average, if you want to leave average, I would add OPS instead of OBP; for pitchers standard things to add would either he QS of Holds
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Re: How can I add OBP to my standard 5x5 league?

Postby Matthias » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:36 pm

I would add QS. And I have no problem with using OBP and AVG as categories. Getting on base is important and they are different, although obviously correlated, skill sets.
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Re: How can I add OBP to my standard 5x5 league?

Postby ezvstheworld » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:00 am

footcow wrote:If you are going to do OBP, I would remove average, if you want to leave average, I would add OPS instead of OBP;


I totally agree.

For pitching it depends what you want to do.
QS effectively adds another SP stat and further devalues closers/relievers.
Holds is a luck category and devalues SP and closers and brings value to setup men.
You might also think of adding another ratio stat like K/BB which impacts pitchers across the board.
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Re: How can I add OBP to my standard 5x5 league?

Postby Matthias » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:58 am

ezvstheworld wrote:
footcow wrote:If you are going to do OBP, I would remove average, if you want to leave average, I would add OPS instead of OBP;

I totally agree.

For pitching it depends what you want to do.
QS effectively adds another SP stat and further devalues closers/relievers.
Holds is a luck category and devalues SP and closers and brings value to setup men.
You might also think of adding another ratio stat like K/BB which impacts pitchers across the board.

Almost all rate stats, K/BB included, favor closers/relievers and devalue SPs; I'm not sure why you would dismiss QS on the grounds that it devalues one group and then promote a stat that devalues another.

At the end of the day, any changing of stats are going to be boosting the value of one set of players and lowering the value of another set. You can have a discussion of whether there are better stats to use than std 5x5 (there are) or if you can come up with better 6x6 than what is proposed here (you can) but for a league that is playing std 5x5 I think adding QS works just fine. Just cap out the innings or limit the transactions to prevent pitcher streaming.
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Re: How can I add OBP to my standard 5x5 league?

Postby ezvstheworld » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:18 am

Matthias wrote:I'm not sure why you would dismiss QS on the grounds that it devalues one group and then promote a stat that devalues another.


I didn't dismiss QS - I just stated that it further devalues SP which it does. I'd dismiss holds, but if the guy wants to add QS and wants closers to dictate only 1/12 of the cats and have a minor influence on 2/12 then that's fine.

I have no idea on whether this is a H2H or Roto or how many teams it is, is Yahoo standard 12 teams? As long as the guy doesn't have some sort of setup where a team can only play relievers and punt W and K, then it will work just fine. Sure relievers will probably have a better K/BB than SP but they pitch maybe 30% of the innings, so you're still more likely to win K/BB because of your SP rather than your RP. I'd use it but then I'd always have an IP or GS minimum as well as maximum too.

Either works, it's just a matter of preference.
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Re: How can I add OBP to my standard 5x5 league?

Postby corefour » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:50 pm

There's definitely a correlation between AVG and OBP but I think it's weak enough that you could have both cats, which I do in my league. I won one of my leagues last year by narrowly winning AVG while losing OBP. I'd say about 75% of the time you either win or lose them both, but it's not uncommon for them to split. Lots of hitters have decent averages but rarely walk while others walk a lot but also strike out a lot. I don't like OPS because it gives even more weight to power hitters, who I think have plenty of weight as it is in traditional formats. I dislike TB for the same reason.

I don't like Holds by itself because then you're dedicating a whole category to a group of players who, except maybe a few elite guys, are all pretty much interchangeable, and highly variable from year to year. I prefer to leave Saves alone, though I would be open to SVHD (Saves + Holds) as a category because then you're bringing middle relievers into the mix, but not on the same level as closers, who still make up the majority of SVHD leaders. Also, more often than not, the Holds leagues I see don't add extra RP spots to compensate for the extra category, so most teams wind up loading up on either SV or HD and punting the other, which I think is kind of lame.

In summary, I would go:
R HR RBI SB AVG OBP
QS W SV K ERA WHIP
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