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Making the switch to OBP

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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby Matthias » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:14 pm

DaSh 1s wrote:
Matthias wrote:
ezvstheworld wrote:It would make a lot more sense to get swap AVG for SLG. As the guy before said, you effectively double count average and devalue power. Either that or swap OBP for OPS. Both combinations work much better than AVG and OBP in a 6x6.

There's nothing wrong with double-counting average and devaluing power. The most important base you reach when you're at bat is the first one.

That's real baseball. We are talking about Fantasy baseball here.

No reason they shouldn't reward the same things. Just because some guys in a Manhattan diner decided to go with scoring categories they could get out of USA Today and compile by hand doesn't mean we have to do it the same way.
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby ezvstheworld » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:49 pm

DaSh 1s wrote: But then HR get counted twice.


If SLG was only a measure of HRs then yes. As it isn't then no.


Matthias wrote: There's nothing wrong with double-counting average and devaluing power. The most important base you reach when you're at bat is the first one.


Yeah, sorry I suppose I should abandon OPS (On-Base plus Slugging) and move to OBA (On-Base plus Average) as a better indicator of batter performance.

I've no issue with replacing AVG with OBP in 5x5 but using AVG and OBP in a 6x6 just seems too skewed. Play your league as you like but I just don't think that's the best combination.
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby LMack » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:08 pm

R, RBI, HR, SB, AVG, BB

You could use a counting stat instead of a rate for number 6?
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby cs3 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:39 am

what do you guys think abuot a 6x6 with:
R, H, SB, HR, RBI, OBP?
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby DaSh 1s » Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:56 am

ezvstheworld wrote:
DaSh 1s wrote: But then HR get counted twice.


If SLG was only a measure of HRs then yes. As it isn't then no.


Right, but no.

A HR would count in the HR category, and would credit the SLG category, hence being counted twice. Heck, it credits the OBP as well.
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby kab21 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:23 am

cs3 wrote:what do you guys think abuot a 6x6 with:
R, H, SB, HR, RBI, OBP?


I think leadoff SB specialists are already overrated in the standard 5x5 format and this will only make it worse (esp because of H's). One thing you should do is put the settings into the rototimes.com player rater and see if the results are improvement to the basic 5x5. I think a lot of settings that people try to improve their league actually do the opposite.
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby The Mighty Trow » Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:48 am

The league averages posted by Chargerss24 is a great thing to be mindful of. You don't want to over-think any one category, especially a new one. But like any other category, you need to know the best players/skills to target.

Familiarize yourself with the obp heavy hitters out there (there aren't many). This group will give you a feel for what's needed to be competitive in your league. Also, be mindful of those players who are have horrendous obp. It is still a ratio category and those are easier to control when you start at a good rate. If I'm looking at similar slash lines, or competing slash lines, obp is always my tiebreaker.
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby cs3 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:49 pm

kab21 wrote:
cs3 wrote:what do you guys think abuot a 6x6 with:
R, H, SB, HR, RBI, OBP?


I think leadoff SB specialists are already overrated in the standard 5x5 format and this will only make it worse (esp because of H's).

do you mean because leadoff hitters get so many more ABs so they have more opportunities to accumulate hits?
i thought including OBP contrasted nicely with that fact.
im not sure how replacing AVG with 2 categories, hits and OBP, could make things "worse".
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby kab21 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:03 pm

cs3 wrote:
kab21 wrote:
cs3 wrote:what do you guys think abuot a 6x6 with:
R, H, SB, HR, RBI, OBP?


I think leadoff SB specialists are already overrated in the standard 5x5 format and this will only make it worse (esp because of H's).

do you mean because leadoff hitters get so many more ABs so they have more opportunities to accumulate hits?
i thought including OBP contrasted nicely with that fact.
im not sure how replacing AVG with 2 categories, hits and OBP, could make things "worse".


Without running the numbers through a value calculator (like rototimes) I'm guessing that ichiro would be a top 10 pick in this format.

The reason is that OBP is probably only slightly devalues leadoff hitters compared to avg but hits are a major advantage imo.

And like I said earlier in the thread when you want to make changes like this you should plug the changes into a value calculator and see if it does actually show the improvement that you intended. Or if it's just a change for the sake of making changes and makes everything worse.
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Re: Making the switch to OBP

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:21 pm

Matthias wrote:
ezvstheworld wrote:
BALCO All-Stars wrote:I'm joining a work league that is 6x6, but has OBP as the 6th category (R, HR, RBI, SB, AVG, OBP)...the 6 pitching cats are standard (W/S/K/ERA/WHIP/HLD).

It would make a lot more sense to get swap AVG for SLG. As the guy before said, you effectively double count average and devalue power. Either that or swap OBP for OPS. Both combinations work much better than AVG and OBP in a 6x6.

There's nothing wrong with double-counting average and devaluing power. The most important base you reach when you're at bat is the first one.

That's not even true in any form of baseball. The most important base to reach is home plate, and 2B/3B/HR have a much higher chance of having someone reach home plate than getting a single.
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