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GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:22 pm

My mom is a teacher and I'm planning on being a teacher, and I pretty much agree 100% with aqua. There is no competition, it doesn't matter how hard you work or how much you care, there are no punishments for being bad, there are no rewards for being good, once you're in you're in and there is no motivation to actually do a good job. That is one of the major reasons why the education system sucks so much and why privatization would help so much. (For the record I think most things the government is in charge of should probably be privatized.) Pretty much anyone can be a teacher, it doesn't really matter if you're any good at it, and you're paid ridiculous amounts of money for how much work you actually have to do. It's incredibly inefficient and needs a major overhaul.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:23 pm

jfg wrote:I went to private school in 10th grade and the school had close to the best test scores in the state. But, it was the worst learning experience I've ever had and I went back to public school the next year. You know why? Because those teachers were instructed on how to get kids to pass a stupid test, not how to really grasp the material.


Couldn't you say the same about public school too? In my experience having gone to public and private schools, certain classes had the pitfalls of concentrating on standardized tests.

I think it depends on the way the teacher goes about the material. They can make the material more accessible to grasp, either by doing the barebones, by-the-textbook way or at the other extreme, to make it more engaging and fun. Each method has its pros and cons. By the same token, it also depends on the students and the attitude with which they approach what they learn. Do they see the material as something that's just retained short term for taking a test... or will it stick as something more long-lasting? Is it something they actually enjoy learning?

One of the best pre-college classes I had taken was AP US History in my junior year. Each week, we had to read 2-3 chapters a week from a big textbook, take notes on those (which were graded), define 100 key terms, and take a 100 point quiz at the end of the week... all in preparation for the AP test itself. We also had movie nights on some piece reflecting the period. It didn't have to be a documentary and shoot, we even watched Legends of the Fall. :-b The workload was a boring, uninspiring way to reinforce the material, but it really helped in retaining that knowledge. Also, it helped a good deal that the teacher made the material interesting in lecture and the movie nights were a good refresher too.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:33 pm

To build on what GF said....why will it never get overhauled? You guessed it! The NEA! Until a hardline conservative can somehow succeed in fixing the union problem, no well-intentioned liberal will even dare take on the unions and risk losing probably 75% of their support (lol) to fix it.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:59 pm

I texted my buddy who is a second year teacher and asked him if he was pro-union and he said yes. I asked why and he responded that they protect his job, benefits and hours while being an asset in negotiating contracts. Nothing about the kids. All "what about the children?" jokes aside.....I see this as the problem in a nutshell. Not a word about the well-being of the students.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:22 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:To build on what GF said....why will it never get overhauled? You guessed it! The NEA! Until a hardline conservative can somehow succeed in fixing the union problem, no well-intentioned liberal will even dare take on the unions and risk losing probably 75% of their support (lol) to fix it.


unions were important back when companies actually exploited people (poor working conditions and such), but they really have no place in today's society. the only job protection people deserve is protection they get from actually doing they're job and doing it well. the only thing that salary should be dependent on is the availability of people capable of doing the job and how well they do that job. for example, it is incredibly hard to become a police officer or fire fighter because so incredibly many people apply for that position. therefore it seems like common sense to me that those positions are overpaid. the supply of police officers and fire fighters is much higher than the demand and in order to even it out salaries should be decreased. there's pretty much no way that is going to happen because of the unions, so instead they'll continue to be overpaid and there will continue to be long lines of people trying to get into those professions.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby bigken117 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:57 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:To build on what GF said....why will it never get overhauled? You guessed it! The NEA! Until a hardline conservative can somehow succeed in fixing the union problem, no well-intentioned liberal will even dare take on the unions and risk losing probably 75% of their support (lol) to fix it.


unions were important back when companies actually exploited people (poor working conditions and such), but they really have no place in today's society. the only job protection people deserve is protection they get from actually doing they're job and doing it well. the only thing that salary should be dependent on is the availability of people capable of doing the job and how well they do that job. for example, it is incredibly hard to become a police officer or fire fighter because so incredibly many people apply for that position. therefore it seems like common sense to me that those positions are overpaid. the supply of police officers and fire fighters is much higher than the demand and in order to even it out salaries should be decreased. there's pretty much no way that is going to happen because of the unions, so instead they'll continue to be overpaid and there will continue to be long lines of people trying to get into those professions.


while I don't agree with the point being made that police are overpaid (I mean there should be some scale for "overtime" directing traffic but I digress) those unions typically make it hard for the city and municipalities to get rid of cops and firefighters who are milking back injuries to the tune of full pay plus disability and drawing their paycheck directly from you and I. Most unions give no incentive for employees to try or care, knowing they are protected no matter how well or poorly they do.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby jfg » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:16 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:My mom is a teacher and I'm planning on being a teacher, and I pretty much agree 100% with aqua. There is no competition, it doesn't matter how hard you work or how much you care, there are no punishments for being bad, there are no rewards for being good, once you're in you're in and there is no motivation to actually do a good job. That is one of the major reasons why the education system sucks so much and why privatization would help so much. (For the record I think most things the government is in charge of should probably be privatized.) Pretty much anyone can be a teacher, it doesn't really matter if you're any good at it, and you're paid ridiculous amounts of money for how much work you actually have to do. It's incredibly inefficient and needs a major overhaul.


The motivation should be the love of teaching and educating children. If it is a performance based system all you'll see is teachers who somehow couldn't get motivated to teach kids finding loopholes and teach to the book to get those rewards. Principals and superintendents will put mandates on teachers to teach a certain way to bring test scores up. You already see that with standardized testing. In the end, good teachers will become mediocre, some bad teachers will still be bad and the others will be able to teach by the book to get scores up. Rewards do nothing, just like in any other job motivation comes from your love of the profession.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:22 pm

jfg wrote:The motivation should be the love of teaching and educating children.


i want to live in your world.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby GiantsFan14 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:26 pm

bigken117 wrote:while I don't agree with the point being made that police are overpaid (I mean there should be some scale for "overtime" directing traffic but I digress) those unions typically make it hard for the city and municipalities to get rid of cops and firefighters who are milking back injuries to the tune of full pay plus disability and drawing their paycheck directly from you and I. Most unions give no incentive for employees to try or care, knowing they are protected no matter how well or poorly they do.


police are just an example that i'm using because i know people trying to become cops and i know how incredibly hard it is to land a job as one. one of my friends applied for a position in freaking oakland and there were 3,000 applicants for two job openings. sure the economy is bad and jobs are hard to come by, but when the supply of capable workers so incredibly outnumbers the demand for them, something is probably wrong with the pay scale.
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Re: GM hourly workers get $4,000 bonuses

Postby jfg » Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:42 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
jfg wrote:The motivation should be the love of teaching and educating children.


i want to live in your world.


I don't think you do...

No, all of my favorite teachers growing up loved what they did. My dad has been handed out awards for his teaching methods and he loves his job. My mom doesn't like her job and complains about it and while I don't see how she works, I know that she's had spats with her principal. They both get paid about the same- the only difference I see is that one feels that everyday he's rewarded by educating kids, and the other feels like it's a job.
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