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Catcher ranking debate

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Catcher ranking debate

Postby kab21 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 7:53 am

I used the FBC compiled catcher rankings and think it's about time we try to get a Cano/Pedroia/world debate going this year. I'll post a new position every 2-3 days once debate has settled down.

What rankings do you disagree with?
How early will you take Mauer? Or will you just avoid him?
Can Posey/Santana live up to their year 2 hype?
Does Posada as a DH look like a steal at #11?
Is Napoli-mania going to overrate him by the time the draft starts?
Would a person be crazy to prefer MMontero to Napoli?
Who is your favorite sleeper (ranked 15th or later)?

1 Joe Mauer MIN 1.13
2 Victor Martinez DET 2.63
3 Brian McCann ATL 2.88
4 Buster Posey SF 3.38
5 Carlos Santana CLE 5.00
6 Geovany Soto CHC 7.13
7 Mike Napoli TEX 7.63
8 Miguel Montero ARI 8.50
9 Kurt Suzuki OAK 8.63
10 Matt Wieters BAL 9.75
11 Jorge Posada NYY 9.75
12 Yadier Molina STL 13.13
13 Carlos Ruiz PHI 13.63
14 Russell Martin NYY 15.13
15 A.J. Pierzynski CWS 15.50
16 Chris Iannetta COL 15.75
17 John Buck FLA 17.13
18 Miguel Olivo SEA 17.88
19 Ryan Doumit PIT 18.88
20 John Jaso TB 20.88
21 Ramon Hernandez CIN 23.63
22 Jarrod Saltalamacchia BOS 24.50
23 JP Arencibia TOR 25.25
24 Bengie Molina TEX 27.25
25 Nick Hundley SD 29.25
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby wingman3110 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:02 am

I dont mind taking Posey in the late 4th round but other than that I dont see myself taking a catcher before round 12.
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby rotoquest » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:37 am

These questions become alot tougher for a 2 catcher league. For a 1 catcher league, the 11th or 12th catcher is still a descent option like posada. I would never take a top catcher in a 1 catcher league because we're talking about a 3rd round pick. I would rather take Dunn in the 3rd and posada in the 17th than v-mart and laroche in those same rounds. However, one of the leagues I am in is a 2 catcher league. In that league, I usually try to get one top catcher & one late sleeper like arencibia. If he doesn't work out, then that is what the waver wire is for, but at least I still have one top catcher to rely on.
That being said, I am really high on napoli this year in the texas line up, and if he is available in either league in round 10, I will probably draft him.
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby Pogotheostrich » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:38 am

No real complaints with the rankings. I have McCann as my #1 but the top 3 seem indisputable to me. Posey and Santana seem to be going much much much early than I would take them but what's new with catchers. Ianetta and Doumit need a healthy bump IMO.
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby koufax4me » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:41 am

After Mauer and Martinez I think you could flipflop 3-10 in about any order and get about the same results from a catcher.
It also depends on the type of league....
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby Montana168 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:50 am

Only catcher that I would draft early in a redraft is Brian McCann, hands down my favorite and #1 ranked C. I can never see myself drafting Mauer that early, there simply is no power there and the avg is not worth drafting him when other very good bats are on the board at the time you have to draft him. I also will not be touching Posey at that value. Lets see Posey do that again before I take him in the 4th along with other proven/higher upside picks like Mccann, phillips, or heyward.

My favorite targets will be Wieters and Montero. If I can get Wieters as the 8-10th catcher off the board, I will draft him in every league. He has the same upside as those other young catchers (posey, santana) but people are afraid to draft him because he didn't light the world on fire right away.

My sleeper catcher, if I miss out on the top 10 (because I would never draft two C if I get one of those top 10 guys) is JP Arencibia. IMO, he can be a poor man's mike napoli. Potential to post 20+ HR with a poor avg. I know he is not ranked 15th or later on that list (ranked 14), but Russell Martin is another guy I could see drafting if I wait on catcher. He is a former all-start that can post solid power/speed numbers for a catcher. I know he has had a lot of injuries since that allstar season, but Yankee stadium is a great place to hit and he has a ton of protection in that lineup where I could see him being successful, and he is worth the risk at that price IMO.
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby Fenway Punk » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:55 am

I look at it this way: If you do decide to take a Mauer, Vmart, McCann, Posey- you gotta spend a round 2-5 pick, and by doing so you are leaving MUCH better stats on the board. No thanks. When it comes to C and SS, treat them as non-positions. When you get production out of the two... hurray... but you are sacrificing your over-all power potential if you take, say ... Vmart instead of Dunn, or Bautista.
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby kab21 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:13 am

I've had teams with sucky catchers and I've had teams with great catchers. both types ended up great and both types ended up terrible.

As a contrarion to the never draft a catcher early crowd I will say that the person that drafts a catcher early has a lot of opportunities to draft a legitimately good sleeper in the OF/SP in the late rds of the draft. But most of the late rd catchers will end up being black holes on your team or you'll continually be scouring the waiver wire for a new catcher. Although in a 12 team, 1C league you will have a chance at a good catcher because the depth is there. But not in deeper leagues.
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby nsulham » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:22 am

Yeah no major qualms for me either except one bit which I'll get to in a sec. I just don't see myself taking a catcher before the top 8 or so have gone which means I usually end up with Wieters or Posada which in a 1-catcher league I'm cool with. Love Napoli this year and if he finds himself falling past the top 8 I'll grab him but otherwise content with Wieters and Posada as my targets.

I'm with pogo on Ianetta getting a bump. They moved Olivo and didn't bring in any competition which means Iannetta's the man in Colorado. He hasn't had 300 ABs since 2008 and he hit 18 HR that season. If he gets upward of 550 this year he's a potential 25-HR catcher. The average will be a drain but you have to like the power potential from your catcher spot, especially when you can get him for a song.
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Re: Catcher ranking debate

Postby CBMGreatOne » Sat Feb 05, 2011 12:10 pm

For me, the biggest conundrum concerning drafting catchers this season is where to draft Mauer.

There's no getting around the fact that he had minimal power last year, but people seem to have completely and utterly forgotten about what he did in 09 (94 Rs, 28 HRs, 96 RBIs, .365). That production, out of a catcher, would be worth a 1st round pick.

I'm not saying he's going to bounce all the way back to his 09 numbers, but if he met his 2 yr averages, he'd have 91 Rs, 18 HRs, 85 RBIs and a .346 average. Those are second round numbers easily and put him squarely in the discussion with some of the OFs going at the end of the top 20 or so (Holliday, Kemp, Choo, etc.). I think there's definitely an argument to be made for Mauer earlier than the people in this thread seem to think.

If for some reason, he was still there when it came to me on a 24/25 wrap, I think I'm definitely buying at that spot. I think if you legitimately feel stuck near the end of the second round, Mauer represents a viable option.

Going back and looking at some mocks I've done, I've notice that Mauer and Zimmerman seem to go in back to back picks a lot. Between those two, I'm taking Mauer. Zimm only has the one good year under his belt and Mauer is pretty much guaranteed to have a better value over replacement player (VORP). That's really what it comes down to.
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