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Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby kaiser » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:29 pm

Padres Fan wrote:think about this 10 teams 4 keepers, no one else will keep a SP really (plenty will be available in draft) so i would keep Reyes.

help with mine?
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=421489


Actually, I anticipate at least two or three teams keeping a SP- Halladay, Lincecum, Weaver... Just because I know how these guys think, and because they dont have four good bats worth keeping.
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby Padres Fan » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:28 pm

kaiser wrote:
Padres Fan wrote:think about this 10 teams 4 keepers, no one else will keep a SP really (plenty will be available in draft) so i would keep Reyes.

help with mine?
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=421489


Actually, I anticipate at least two or three teams keeping a SP- Halladay, Lincecum, Weaver... Just because I know how these guys think, and because they dont have four good bats worth keeping.


wow a league that small and there are teams struggling to keep 4 good hitters, you will still will have plenty of pitchers available and also Cliff Lee as a pitcher (all pitchers are injury concerns) will be as risky as Reyes. i'd still go witha scarcer position at SS, and a player who can go .290 10hrs 30-50 sbs, plus can also help in runs and OBP if your league scores that, right there Jose Reyes is more valuable.
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby kaiser » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:49 pm

Padres Fan wrote:
wow a league that small and there are teams struggling to keep 4 good hitters.


They are not really struggling to find batters. Some of these guys just highly value pitching.
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby Wadderboiz » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:14 pm

Wow I'm surprised on the love for Reyes. SS is indeed a shallow position. However consistently dominant SPs is also a shallow position.

Quality SS:
Hanley, Tulo, Reyes, Rollins...then it kind of tails off.

Quality SP:
Halladay, Felix, Lee, Wainwright, Lincecum...then it too tails off.

The difference here is Reyes has trouble staying on the field. Personally I'd rather have Lee and say a tier 2/3 SS like Elvis Andrus.

Then an injury proned Reyes who ends up being filled in with Edgar Renteria off the WW when Reyes goes down, and a tier 2/3 SP who doesn't have proven consistancy.
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby kaiser » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:35 pm

Good points, Wadderboiz.
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby The Artful Dodger » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:11 pm

Lee is easier to replace than Reyes, however, and in a 10-teamer, snagging a #1 SP is easier. Reyes' production is expendable if you can get Andrus back in the draft, but few or neither replacement SS can come close to either Reyes/Andrus' ceilings.

It's easier to get similar production to Lee from the likes of Lester, Verlander, Josh Johnson, Liriano, Hamels, etc. The big advantage Lee has is efficiency, namely the prospect for a lower WHIP. In a H2H, ERA/WHIP are prone to fluctuating weekly and hence, any advantage in IP/ERA/WHIP is diluted.

In a roto, I'm more inclined to take Lee. Reyes' value is also diluted in H2H since SB can be volatile week to week as well, but at least you're not punting SS away either.
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby Ernie.Whitt. » Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:29 pm

I would certainly keep Lee. Hitting trumps pitching... but health trumps both. I don't trust Reyes and you can trust Lee about as much as any pitcher not named Halladay.
Please help with mine...
viewtopic.php?t=421554
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby kaiser » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:28 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:Lee is easier to replace than Reyes, however, and in a 10-teamer, snagging a #1 SP is easier. Reyes' production is expendable if you can get Andrus back in the draft, but few or neither replacement SS can come close to either Reyes/Andrus' ceilings.

It's easier to get similar production to Lee from the likes of Lester, Verlander, Josh Johnson, Liriano, Hamels, etc. The big advantage Lee has is efficiency, namely the prospect for a lower WHIP. In a H2H, ERA/WHIP are prone to fluctuating weekly and hence, any advantage in IP/ERA/WHIP is diluted.

In a roto, I'm more inclined to take Lee. Reyes' value is also diluted in H2H since SB can be volatile week to week as well, but at least you're not punting SS away either.


Dodger, I really appreciate your insight here, let me ask you... Does the fact that our draft is in auction format change any of your thinking? I ask because Andrus will almost certainly be unprotected, meaning I could drop Reyes and have a good shot at getting Andrus. Reyes is worth $20. Keeping Lee would cost me $17. I'm thinking I could get Andrus for $20 or less. Any thoughts?
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby New Player » Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:03 am

IMO the biggest thing to consider is in a H2H league is getting the most help weekly. Lee most weeks will only pitch once. Reyes will play at least 5-6 games a week providing a larger contribution to winning or losing. So H2H Reyes wins, in a Roto league Lee all day ;-)
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Re: Do I keep Cliff Lee over Jose Reyes? ALL HELP RETURNED

Postby The Artful Dodger » Tue Feb 08, 2011 2:33 am

kaiser wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:Lee is easier to replace than Reyes, however, and in a 10-teamer, snagging a #1 SP is easier. Reyes' production is expendable if you can get Andrus back in the draft, but few or neither replacement SS can come close to either Reyes/Andrus' ceilings.

It's easier to get similar production to Lee from the likes of Lester, Verlander, Josh Johnson, Liriano, Hamels, etc. The big advantage Lee has is efficiency, namely the prospect for a lower WHIP. In a H2H, ERA/WHIP are prone to fluctuating weekly and hence, any advantage in IP/ERA/WHIP is diluted.

In a roto, I'm more inclined to take Lee. Reyes' value is also diluted in H2H since SB can be volatile week to week as well, but at least you're not punting SS away either.


Dodger, I really appreciate your insight here, let me ask you... Does the fact that our draft is in auction format change any of your thinking? I ask because Andrus will almost certainly be unprotected, meaning I could drop Reyes and have a good shot at getting Andrus. Reyes is worth $20. Keeping Lee would cost me $17. I'm thinking I could get Andrus for $20 or less. Any thoughts?


I would keep Lee in this case then. $17 is a terrific price for Lee, on the same price one would pay for like a #2 pitcher. That's not a bad price for Reyes either, but I'd feel more confident about Lee producing over his price than Reyes and you have him at $3 less.
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