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Re: HOF

Postby Curtis Pride » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:19 pm

I do not believe that OPS+ sufficiently factors in the Coors effect. One would imagine that people like Walker, Castilla, and Bichette would then have consistent "OPS+" year over year regardless of their home ballpark.

But that's not the case. All of them had considerably higher OPS+ when they were playing for Colorado (including when Castilla went back to Colorado 5 years later).

But even if it does and I'm just having a selective memory, the fact that Walker basically only played 13 seasons probably means he doesn't get in. I certainly wouldn't heartily debate against him. He was great offensively and defensively, but he'd be on my no list.
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Re: HOF

Postby ayebatter » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:03 am

Curtis Pride wrote: the fact that Walker basically only played 13 seasons probably means he doesn't get in.


Sandy Koufax 12 yrs
Jackie Robinson 10yrs
KIrby Puckett 12 yrs

And these 3 were 1st ballot electees
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Re: HOF

Postby MasterX1918 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:25 am

Larry Walker played 17 seasons, almost 2000 games. A great player? Yes. A Hall of Famer? Maybe, but definitly not a first balloter. Also, Koufax, Robinson and Puckett all had their careers cut short because of precipitous circumstances. Koufax had to retire because of severe arthritis (probably because he threw 1192 innings over a 4 year period), Kirby Puckett had to retire because of blindness from glaucoma and Jackie Robinson retired at age 37 and diabetic. For what it's worth I think the writers got it right this year, Blyleven deserved to get in and Alomar definitly deserved to get in the second time around, one of the best players in the last 20 years no doubt.
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Re: HOF

Postby Skin Blues » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:12 am

So they had short careers because of injuries and their bodies falling apart, but Larry Walker doesn't deserve the hall of fame because of injuries and his body falling apart. The Koufax comparison is a good one. Koufax benefited just as much from his home park as Larry Walker did (just quickly looking at home/road OPS and ERA), and had a short career because of his body failing him. But Koufax is romanticized in the media so nobody cares. To even bring up the notion that he maybe shouldn't be in the HOF would bring chuckles and sneers. It's such a strange soap opera to watch the HOF voters collectively decide on things in such a ridiculous manner.
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Re: HOF

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:03 pm

ayebatter wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote: the fact that Walker basically only played 13 seasons probably means he doesn't get in.


Sandy Koufax 12 yrs
Jackie Robinson 10yrs
KIrby Puckett 12 yrs

And these 3 were 1st ballot electees

You don't believe that Walker really belongs in the category of any of the three, do you?

Jackie Robinson played only 10 years in MLB not do to injury or ability, but racism. Koufax was the best pitcher in baseball. Kirby Puckett doesn't really belong anyway, but he got in because he was a "winner" and a great guy (before he became a skeeve), and his career was cut short due to injury.

Not long-term nagging injuries like Walker.
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Re: HOF

Postby HOOTIE » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:02 pm

Walker is 100th in career WAR.
Yes i think he should be in.

He crushes slugs like Rice at 391st.
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Re: HOF

Postby Curtis Pride » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:22 pm

You won't catch me defending guys like Rice and Puckett being in the HOF. But there is the lowest common denominator error about "hey, player X is in the HOF and my guy is way better than him"
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