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Bagwell and the HOF?

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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby bigken117 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:08 pm

wrveres wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
BitterDodgerFan wrote:they really need to make a roiders wing in the HoF for all these guys from the steroids era


Then we need a wing for the greenie era 1960 on.


and a segregated era.


and a raised mound era
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby Dan Lambskin » Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:40 pm

it should really just be separated into 3 eras
Pre-Strasburg
Strasburg
Post-Strasburg
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby dAnzac » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:35 am

bigken117 wrote:
wrveres wrote:
HOOTIE wrote:
Then we need a wing for the greenie era 1960 on.


and a segregated era.


and a raised mound era


and the post-Sal Fasano era :-?
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby Tavish » Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:06 am

Dan Lambskin wrote:it should really just be separated into 3 eras
Pre-Strasburg
Strasburg
Post-Strasburg

Cole Hamels disagrees with this. And for good measure, Jeter was robbed.
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby thedude » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:13 pm

Bagwell got 41.7% of the vote. I say he gets more support next year and gets in sometime in the next 5 years.
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby Tavish » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:18 pm

thedude wrote:Bagwell got 41.7% of the vote. I say he gets more support next year and gets in sometime in the next 5 years.

Yeah, 41% is a stronger showing than I thought he would get. I hate to see him wait but it would be nice to see him and Biggio go in together (assuming Biggio gets enough support).
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby Curtis Pride » Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:54 pm

Verminator wrote:
Tavish wrote:Maybe I'm missing something. What makes Bagwell the prototypical roider other than he says he didn't do them?


a) The eye test
b) Punching Judy minor league numbers
c) Sudden career crash

So Hanley Ramirez is a roider? (also it's "punch and judy", not "punching judy"

And in regards to the "eye test". Have you seen pictures of Roberto Alomar early in his career? Andruw Jones? Ken Griffey, Jr? Frank Thomas? People gain weight as they age. And the fact that Bagwell got incredibly muscular, so what? That means he had to be roiding?

I know people that have 9-5 jobs who are cut up and gained muscle. Let alone the fact that he entire job is to be in shape. How is that hard to imagine that someone can gain a bunch of muscle by eating right and spending 2 hours a day in the gym for a decade?

The fact is, Bagwell never tested positively. Bagwell was never accused of 'roiding during the whole '04 blowout. Bagwell never showed up on any list of suspected 'roiders. There is absolutely no rational reason to lump him in with the 'roiders.

And as an aside, why are Thome, Griffey, and Frank Thomas given a free pass in regards to 'roids. If anyone ever dared suggest that Griffey 'roided they'd be beaten down. But Bagwell. Sure, we'll just create this alternate reality where everyone in baseball thought Bagwell was roiding.
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby Tavish » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:15 pm

Curtis Pride wrote:And as an aside, why are Thome, Griffey, and Frank Thomas given a free pass in regards to 'roids. If anyone ever dared suggest that Griffey 'roided they'd be beaten down. But Bagwell. Sure, we'll just create this alternate reality where everyone in baseball thought Bagwell was roiding.

The Alomar vote is interesting to me because now we are starting to get very close to players who played pretty much their entire career within the steroid era. I think how the voters handle the high HR hitters vs the more balanced players will be pretty telling when it comes to their hypocrisy. Their is easily as much evidence that Alomar roided as their is that Bagwell did (which is basically none other than whom they played with and when they played) but I'm fairly certain that anyone who hit that 40 HR threshold in a season will be treated much differently than those who didn't.
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby Curtis Pride » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:25 pm

Tavish wrote:
Curtis Pride wrote:And as an aside, why are Thome, Griffey, and Frank Thomas given a free pass in regards to 'roids. If anyone ever dared suggest that Griffey 'roided they'd be beaten down. But Bagwell. Sure, we'll just create this alternate reality where everyone in baseball thought Bagwell was roiding.

The Alomar vote is interesting to me because now we are starting to get very close to players who played pretty much their entire career within the steroid era. I think how the voters handle the high HR hitters vs the more balanced players will be pretty telling when it comes to their hypocrisy. Their is easily as much evidence that Alomar roided as their is that Bagwell did (which is basically none other than whom they played with and when they played) but I'm fairly certain that anyone who hit that 40 HR threshold in a season will be treated much differently than those who didn't.

Except Griffey. It's like the media is willing him to be steroid free. They talk in absolutes about how he's the only one who's career isn't clouded? Why? He had just as much of an abrupt jump in power. His body broke down, and his career production fell off a cliff.

Make no mistake, I'm not accusing Griffey of 'roiding. I'm doing the exact opposite, actually. I just find it odd that Griffey, Frank Thomas, and Thome are all just assumed to be clean - and I have no idea why. They have all of the same issues as Bagwell. Big power, Big guys, never accused by anyone of 'roiding.
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Re: Bagwell and the HOF?

Postby BitterDodgerFan » Wed Jan 05, 2011 4:39 pm

cuz griffey didnt seem to have much muscle
even he said himself he has no muscles
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