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Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby Fenway Punk » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:03 pm

thejusman1 wrote:Great news for anti-Yankees fan everywhere. Too bad the Phillies are now a lock to win the NL.

The Philllies were also a "lock" to beat the Giants in the 2010 NLCS. This is why baseball is king... ANYTHING can happen.
And even with Lee, IMO the Giants still have the stronger OVERALL pitching staff: starters + pen = Giants > Phillies
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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby Fenway Punk » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:08 pm

skjelstrom wrote:That definitely shows Philadelphia is the place to be. Both Halladay and Lee took major pay cuts just to play with the Phillies. It's also a slap in the face to the Yankees who offered more years and more money }:-)

MaudDib wrote:Is no one worried about their offense? I understand that it will be hard to score runs off of them (assuming that Lee's back doesn't give him trouble and the rest stay healthy) but that offense has some issues. Rollins, Howard, Placido and Ibanez all seem to be on the decline. Utley has had problems staying healthy recently and is also on the wrong side of 30. There is Dominic Brown but not really sure how much you can rely on a rookie. They are going to have to win a lot of 3-1 kind of games. And when you do that you really need a closer/bullpen that you can rely on.


Phillies offense isn't really that bad. Assuming they can stay away from a ton of injuries as they had last year. The giants won the world series with mostly pitching, and timely hitting when it was needed. Howard still has some power in him, Utley isn't done yet, Rollins I don't think will perform much better (still better than the average SS), Polanco hits for a nice average, Victorino is a clutch hitter that can hit for average, Brown has shown a TON of potential, Ruiz is a clutch hitter also. That only leaves one player below the mendoza line - Ibanez. Doesn't sound bad to me especially with a rotation like they have.

Worry about the Phillies offense? At citizens bank park? LOL. Now watch the Phillies sign Rafeal Soriano and then i'll jump on board with the strongest pitching staff in the game arguement... B-)
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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby MaudDib » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:44 pm

Fenway Punk wrote:
skjelstrom wrote:That definitely shows Philadelphia is the place to be. Both Halladay and Lee took major pay cuts just to play with the Phillies. It's also a slap in the face to the Yankees who offered more years and more money }:-)

MaudDib wrote:Is no one worried about their offense? I understand that it will be hard to score runs off of them (assuming that Lee's back doesn't give him trouble and the rest stay healthy) but that offense has some issues. Rollins, Howard, Placido and Ibanez all seem to be on the decline. Utley has had problems staying healthy recently and is also on the wrong side of 30. There is Dominic Brown but not really sure how much you can rely on a rookie. They are going to have to win a lot of 3-1 kind of games. And when you do that you really need a closer/bullpen that you can rely on.


Phillies offense isn't really that bad. Assuming they can stay away from a ton of injuries as they had last year. The giants won the world series with mostly pitching, and timely hitting when it was needed. Howard still has some power in him, Utley isn't done yet, Rollins I don't think will perform much better (still better than the average SS), Polanco hits for a nice average, Victorino is a clutch hitter that can hit for average, Brown has shown a TON of potential, Ruiz is a clutch hitter also. That only leaves one player below the mendoza line - Ibanez. Doesn't sound bad to me especially with a rotation like they have.

Worry about the Phillies offense? At citizens bank park? LOL. Now watch the Phillies sign Rafeal Soriano and then i'll jump on board with the strongest pitching staff in the game arguement... B-)


There is no such thing as a "clutch hitter". No their offense isn't that bad but it also isn't that far removed from being in trouble especially when so many have such high expectations. If this pitching staff dominates but the hitters don't perform, there is going to be a lot of finger pointing. Yes they play their home games in a hitters park but can they score runs on the road?

I say this not because I want them to fail. The Phillies offense is not the worse one in the league by any means but it is probably one of the worst ones for teams that have a reasonable shot at winning a title.
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."- Douglas Adams

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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:50 pm

thedude wrote:
DbacksRback wrote:
Matthias wrote:

Missing someone....o wait 2 players :-°
And even with this I wasn't trying to bash these teams I'm just saying the Phillies are doing it right. Yet I still hear people saying they're cheaters and buy wins and other comments like that. Just trying to point out Phillies have done a great job developing talent and putting it to great use.


First, it's not cheating. But you realize the Phillies accquired Halladay the same way as the Red Sox acquired Beckett and Gonzalez: by giving a small market team prospects for a player that small market could not afford to keep in free agency.

The Jays traded Halladay because he wanted to be on a contender, not because we couldn't afford him. Toronto gladly would have kept him if he wanted to stay. Halladay was pretty angry (as angry as a guy like him gets) that he wasn't dealt at the deadline in 2009, which is part of the reason JP Ricciardi was given the boot when he was.
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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby Tavish » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:53 pm

MaudDib wrote:I say this not because I want them to fail. The Phillies offense is not the worse one in the league by any means but it is probably one of the worst ones for teams that have a reasonable shot at winning a title.

You are talking about the Phils who were the second highest scoring team in the NL last year right? Do you think Werth was really so valuable that his replacement will cost them 80-90 runs?
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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby Kim Bhasin » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:59 pm

mweir145 wrote:Haha, what are the Yankees going to do now? Trade all of their prospects for Greinke, I hope.

And how did the Phillies get both Lee and Halladay to take massive pay cuts over the last two years to sign with them? 8-o


The Royals are licking their lips in anticipation of the haul they're gonna get for Greinke.

What else can the Yanks do? Brandon Webb?

CARL PAVANO? Ironic.
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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby Fenway Punk » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:10 pm

Did I miss something? Sure Ibanez is bout done, but that's the only guy I'm seeing on that Phillies roster that could be deemed as such. Chase Utley and Ryan Howard aren't dead people. Shane Victorino and Jimmy Rollins still bring plenty of speed to that line-up. I've yet to see Dominic Brown but that will change when the Phils come to clearwater in februrary. This whole "worst offense for a team with WS hopes" is complete bull.
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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby BronXBombers51 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:26 pm

Kim Bhasin wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Haha, what are the Yankees going to do now? Trade all of their prospects for Greinke, I hope.

And how did the Phillies get both Lee and Halladay to take massive pay cuts over the last two years to sign with them? 8-o


The Royals are licking their lips in anticipation of the haul they're gonna get for Greinke.

What else can the Yanks do? Brandon Webb?

CARL PAVANO? Ironic.


I don't see any way the Yankees deal for Grienke. The Yankees can beg Pettitte to come back and go with a rotation of Sabathia-Hughes-Pettitte-Burnett-Nova and spend the money saved from Lee on bolstering the bullpen with guys like Wood and Feliciano. Maybe Soriano if they are real desperate and he's willing to play a setup role (for closer pay).

You guys quickly forget that the Yankees routinely won 95-100 games and the AL East every year from 2004-2007 with garbage in their rotation. Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon anyone? This team is certainly talented enough to compete for a WC at the very least with their lineup. And they have a ton of financial flexibility now.
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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby Skin Blues » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:44 pm

They've always had financial "flexibility" if you want to call it that. The problem is there's nobody to spend the money on. Let's not get carried away with how bad they are though, because they still have arguably the best offense in baseball. The bottom 3 in the rotation will be ugly if Pettitte doesn't come back, but they could still possibly make a move.
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Re: Phillies Sign Cliff Lee

Postby StlSluggers » Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:45 pm

Kim Bhasin wrote:
mweir145 wrote:Haha, what are the Yankees going to do now? Trade all of their prospects for Greinke, I hope.

And how did the Phillies get both Lee and Halladay to take massive pay cuts over the last two years to sign with them? 8-o


The Royals are licking their lips in anticipation of the haul they're gonna get for Greinke.

What else can the Yanks do? Brandon Webb?

CARL PAVANO? Ironic.

Fangraphs pointed out today that barring an opt-out by CC, there are no major FA SPs after this year. :-°
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