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Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby thejusman1 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:54 pm

Hanley's last 5 full seasons:

2006 - 119R, 17HR, 59 RBI, 51 SB, .292/.353/.480
2007 - 125R, 29HR, 81RBI, 51SB, .332/.386/.562
2008 - 125R, 33HR, 67RBI, 35SB, .301/.400/.540
2009 - 101R, 24HR, 106RBI, 27SB, .342/.410/.543
2010 - 92R, 21HR, 76RBI, 32SB, .300/.378/.475

I'm willing to overlook one bad year based on three years of studly production. Hanley is still a rare 30/30 threat with .300+ average and great OBP/SLG numbers. He's a top-5 pick for sure, and I'd take him #2 or 3.
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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby mrmarley » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:05 pm

Two things. Howard doesn't belong in that group in your OP. He was ranked 29th overall among hitters compared to Hanley at 15. Also, Hanley actually held his own last year in 5x5 value despite a down year. Compare him to the rest of the top 25 by 2010 MDP:

'10MDP	Fin.Rk	+/- Val	Player			POS	BB Monster Val
1 2 (1) Albert Pujols 1B 1.690
2 15 (13) Hanley Ramirez SS 0.780
3 31 (28) Alex Rodriguez 3B 0.480
4 83 (79) Chase Utley 2B (0.140)
5 10 (5) Ryan Braun OF 0.980
6 48 (42) Matt Kemp OF 0.230
7 47 (40) Prince Fielder 1B 0.250
8 21 (13) Mark Teixeira 1B 0.660
9 16 (7) Evan Longoria 3B 0.770
10 29 (19) Ryan Howard 1B 0.510
11 3 8 Miguel Cabrera 1B 1.590
12 51 (39) Joe Mauer C 0.190
13 5 8 Carl Crawford OF 1.370
14 17 (3) David Wright 3B 0.760
15 18 (3) Troy Tulowitzki SS 0.750
16 111 (95) Ian Kinsler 2B (0.390)
17 11 6 Matt Holliday OF 0.960
18 74 (56) Justin Upton OF (0.060)
19 434 (415) Jacoby Ellsbury OF (1.950)
20 95 (75) Mark Reynolds 3B (0.300)
21 195 (174) Jimmy Rollins SS (0.960)
22 401 (379) Grady Sizemore OF (1.900)
23 23 0 Adrian Gonzalez 1B 0.630
24 63 (39) Jose Reyes SS 0.070
25 71 (46) Victor Martinez C (0.040)


Lots of negative values throughout that list, regardless of the position they play. It's easy to look at 2010 stats only and say Hanley was the worst of the bunch that you listed (well, not worse than Howard actually), but I like his chances to bounce back and don't see why he should fall out of the top 5.

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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby Fenway Punk » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:38 pm

Okay, I think we are getting a little off base here. I'm well aware of what Hanley has done in the past, and did not mean to belittle him by putting his worst career numbers up against the other guys that will be around him in the first round. What I'm trying to nail home is, when you have a high pick that puts you in a position to grab Hanley, you are passing much better power numbers to obtain him. You can get speed much, much, MUCH later.
Plus, I have a bit of a confession about something that I have left out. I live in Florida specifically to be around baseball 24/7. I've been watching Hanley since he was the air apparant to Nomar. This past year, I saw something from him that I had never seen before. Ego. I've been playing baseball and have been around baseball all my life. I can tell when a player is "locked in" or is just going through the motions. Unfortunately, for Hanley's case... I saw a lot more of the latter last year. Maybe he comes back with a vengeance... who knows? But these are the breaks: 1. he has absolutely no line-up protection anymore. 2. He won't come close to 100 R scored batting 3rd and won't drive in 100 since there is nobody to drive in. 3. The only way to justify drafting him so high would be if he goes 30/30, which to me seems like there is more risk than reward tied to this pick.
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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby jake_twothousandfive » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:41 pm

Fenway Punk wrote:
jake_twothousandfive wrote:Player A - Miggy
Player B - Pujols
Player C - Howard
Player D - Longoria
Player E - CarGo
Player F - Hanley



Bingo. The point of this post was to point out how much greater these stats are too Hanley's. What I'm trying to say is, you have much little margin for error with the rest of your draft when you take Hanley at such a high pick when the stats that surround him blow him out of the water. The point I'm making, (and trust me you'll get really sick of hearing it from me) is that if you draft by numbers and not by names it won't matter who you have playing at the "thin" postions because it will even out in your favor. Those who pass on the numbers like the ones listed are only making things harder for themselves, even though at the time they feel like the fantasy baseball messiah.

You have to maximize value by position and round. Hanley is justifiably considered a top pick annually because of his ability to consistently outproduce the average player at his position by a wide margin. Miggy, Pujols, and Howard are all great players and good picks early but they aren't as likely to outproduce the average 1B by as much as Hanley is at SS. Which is why Hanley is in the discussion and why it's important to consider a player's position.

Fantasy has become so competitive that there aren't many inefficiencies to easily exploit. Going against the grain and using an unconventional strategy is typically a good idea if it's well thought out. Your general approach of drafting power early and speed late is good but there are other things you need to consider as well.
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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby Fenway Punk » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:48 pm

I know that. The power early and speed late suggestion is just that... a suggestion. The draft should come to you, and as long as you have a good idea of what is available round by round, you should do just fine.
For the record, I don't want anyone thinking that I'm trying to steer you away form Hanley because I think he's going to be a bust or anything like that. I'm trying to open your mind to other directions more geared at why we are here in the first place: STATS. :-°
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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby jake_twothousandfive » Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:59 pm

Fenway Punk wrote:I know that. The power early and speed late suggestion is just that... a suggestion. The draft should come to you, and as long as you have a good idea of what is available round by round, you should do just fine.
For the record, I don't want anyone thinking that I'm trying to steer you away form Hanley because I think he's going to be a bust or anything like that. I'm trying to open your mind to other directions more geared at why we are here in the first place: STATS. :-°

The #1 thing on everyone's mind is stats. What else would we be thinking about?
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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby Fenway Punk » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:09 pm

jake_twothousandfive wrote:
Fenway Punk wrote:I know that. The power early and speed late suggestion is just that... a suggestion. The draft should come to you, and as long as you have a good idea of what is available round by round, you should do just fine.
For the record, I don't want anyone thinking that I'm trying to steer you away form Hanley because I think he's going to be a bust or anything like that. I'm trying to open your mind to other directions more geared at why we are here in the first place: STATS. :-°

The #1 thing on everyone's mind is stats. What else would we be thinking about?

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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby thejusman1 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:14 pm

Fenway Punk wrote:
jake_twothousandfive wrote:
Fenway Punk wrote:I know that. The power early and speed late suggestion is just that... a suggestion. The draft should come to you, and as long as you have a good idea of what is available round by round, you should do just fine.
For the record, I don't want anyone thinking that I'm trying to steer you away form Hanley because I think he's going to be a bust or anything like that. I'm trying to open your mind to other directions more geared at why we are here in the first place: STATS. :-°

The #1 thing on everyone's mind is stats. What else would we be thinking about?

Katy Perry doing jumping jacks wearing nothing but vintage GI JOE underwear ;-D


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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:32 pm

Well, this thread just got interesting.
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Re: Hanley Ramirez vs THE WORLD

Postby Fenway Punk » Thu Dec 02, 2010 3:51 pm

thejusman1 wrote:
Fenway Punk wrote:
jake_twothousandfive wrote:The #1 thing on everyone's mind is stats. What else would we be thinking about?

Katy Perry doing jumping jacks wearing nothing but vintage GI JOE underwear ;-D


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Okay, I guess I'll let it slide that she's not in the vintage GI JOE underoos
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