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News of the weird/funny/pointless

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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby Skin Blues » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:26 pm

You guys don't think enough people are given the death penalty as it is? Instead of fostering a violent and vengeful culture with a me-first attitude that deals with problems by electrocuting them, maybe another approach could be taken. You know, kind of a preventative thing that tries to actually solve the issues instead of putting a cyanide bandaid on all the ugly sores that come about from a messed-up society. Just a suggestion. Ah, that's for pussies, right? It's more fun to just kill people we don't like, cuz they deserve it! RARRR!!! U-S-A!
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby The Artful Dodger » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:17 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:Problem is, a good deal of drunk drivers aren't in the right frame of mind to premeditate their next course of action...


if you cannot stop yourself from getting behind a wheel when you're drunk, then don't get drunk. it's that easy. by choosing to get drunk, you know there's a chance you get behind the wheel and kill someone, and you should be held fully accountable for that.

but fine, if you want to avoid the death penalty, then you should have to pay or work off the cost of keeping you in jail. it's bs that we're forced to pay so much money in taxes because of terrible decisions that complete morons made.


Not everyone chooses to get drunk. They choose to drink, but there comes a point where it's past their locus of control to stop drinking. If anyone is injured or killed by a drunk driver's action, it's negligence. Those who are on death row committed a crime that's not just severe but with malicious enough intent to get there. A drunk driver's intent is different; they think they're in a sufficient state to drive home and thus, they risk personal injury as well as someone else's welfare possibly.

As far as the death penalty goes, it's somewhat of a myth that it costs less than say, life imprisonment. The costs of litigation alone to determine if a convicted person should rightly be executed are costly enough. Also, an unacceptable number of those executed weren't deserving of such a penalty either.
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby GiantsFan14 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:17 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:Not everyone chooses to get drunk. They choose to drink, but there comes a point where it's past their locus of control to stop drinking. If anyone is injured or killed by a drunk driver's action, it's negligence. Those who are on death row committed a crime that's not just severe but with malicious enough intent to get there. A drunk driver's intent is different; they think they're in a sufficient state to drive home and thus, they risk personal injury as well as someone else's welfare possibly.

As far as the death penalty goes, it's somewhat of a myth that it costs less than say, life imprisonment. The costs of litigation alone to determine if a convicted person should rightly be executed are costly enough. Also, an unacceptable number of those executed weren't deserving of such a penalty either.


i can keep going with this... if you can't stop yourself from driving while drunk, don't get drunk. if you can't stop yourself from getting drunk, then don't start drinking. seriously, the choice starts somewhere and if by making that choice you are putting people's lives at risk then you deserve no leniency.

also, i'm aware of the cost of the death penalty, but i'm more in favor of the death penalty in open and shut cases. in cases like that i think they should skip all the appeals and such and take the offender out back right after the guilty verdict and put him in front of a firing squad.
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby GiantsFan14 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:20 pm

Skin Blues wrote:You guys don't think enough people are given the death penalty as it is? Instead of fostering a violent and vengeful culture with a me-first attitude that deals with problems by electrocuting them, maybe another approach could be taken. You know, kind of a preventative thing that tries to actually solve the issues instead of putting a cyanide bandaid on all the ugly sores that come about from a messed-up society. Just a suggestion. Ah, that's for pussies, right? It's more fun to just kill people we don't like, cuz they deserve it! RARRR!!! U-S-A!


harsher punishments is a preventative thing. people who drunk drive already don't value their own lives or lives of others very much, so why should we value them any higher?
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby The Artful Dodger » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:48 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:Not everyone chooses to get drunk. They choose to drink, but there comes a point where it's past their locus of control to stop drinking. If anyone is injured or killed by a drunk driver's action, it's negligence. Those who are on death row committed a crime that's not just severe but with malicious enough intent to get there. A drunk driver's intent is different; they think they're in a sufficient state to drive home and thus, they risk personal injury as well as someone else's welfare possibly.

As far as the death penalty goes, it's somewhat of a myth that it costs less than say, life imprisonment. The costs of litigation alone to determine if a convicted person should rightly be executed are costly enough. Also, an unacceptable number of those executed weren't deserving of such a penalty either.


i can keep going with this... if you can't stop yourself from driving while drunk, don't get drunk. if you can't stop yourself from getting drunk, then don't start drinking. seriously, the choice starts somewhere and if by making that choice you are putting people's lives at risk then you deserve no leniency.

also, i'm aware of the cost of the death penalty, but i'm more in favor of the death penalty in open and shut cases. in cases like that i think they should skip all the appeals and such and take the offender out back right after the guilty verdict and put him in front of a firing squad.


It's not that simple as refraining from drinking. I won't get into that long debate about alcoholism being a disease, but it's just not that simple. Even those who can drink on a healthy, recreational basis can underestimate their own tolerance and overestimate their own functionality. That doesn't mean they didn't make a choice to drink and I won't disagree there. What I do disagree with is that a drunk driver should be treated as badly as a serial murderer on death row. Negligence, absolutely, but the intent to do a malicious act isn't (and that should not be punishable by death).

Personally, I'm against the death penalty and even though the methods of execution have become more "humane" (i.e. lethal injection), it's a barbaric practice. Even the worst offenders have their dignity. For instance, I'd rather have Andrew Gallo (the driver that killed Nick Adenhart) sentenced for a very long time with no chance for parole rather than just letting violence beget violence.
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby GiantsFan14 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:52 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:It's not that simple as refraining from drinking. I won't get into that long debate about alcoholism being a disease, but it's just not that simple.


if you cannot refrain from drinking then you need help and not getting it is just another choice.
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby The Artful Dodger » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:00 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:It's not that simple as refraining from drinking. I won't get into that long debate about alcoholism being a disease, but it's just not that simple.


if you cannot refrain from drinking then you need help and not getting it is just another choice.


Again, not that simple. Most folks don't want to admit they have a problem because they feel shame for having one. It's not simple as just suddenly having the willpower to get help, it really isn't.
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:04 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:
GiantsFan14 wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:It's not that simple as refraining from drinking. I won't get into that long debate about alcoholism being a disease, but it's just not that simple.


if you cannot refrain from drinking then you need help and not getting it is just another choice.


Again, not that simple. Most folks don't want to admit they have a problem because they feel shame for having one. It's not simple as just suddenly having the willpower to get help, it really isn't.


Furthermore, "help" isn't as easy as it sounds. Plenty of alcoholics get "help" and then go right back and drink-and-drive again. Figuring out the right type of help is even harder than admitting that one needs to receive help.
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby Skin Blues » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:27 pm

GiantsFan14 wrote:harsher punishments is a preventative thing. people who drunk drive already don't value their own lives

Ah, this is golden. I love the literal juxtaposition of those two sentences.
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Re: News of the weird/funny/pointless

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:42 am

They don't have to avoid drinking or even getting drunk, they just need to set up a sober monitor and/or a DD beforehand. There's really no excuse not to set anything like that up. Personally, I don't drink, so I end up sober monitoring and DDing a ton. It starts with all of us on an individual basis, and if we're going to call for harsher punishments (which I totally, absolutely support), we have to work to provide people with alternatives.
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