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Surpreme Court Justice Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

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Re: Surpreme Court Justics Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby Tavish » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:05 am

The public discourse isn't always pretty, but if we were to start imposing artificial limitations on these sorts of protests then you are basically slapping soldiers who have fought and died to protect those freedoms right in the face.
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Bury me a Royal.
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Re: Surpreme Court Justics Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:04 pm

urbanbreez wrote:
Just because our soldiers are already at risk doesn't mean that they can't be more at risk. Burning the Qurans would likely stall or even reverse any headway into peace efforts, since it would make reconciliatory messages seem disingenuous.


implying there can be any headway into peace between insurgents or Alvin Kada and American forces lol.

Implying that they are inhuman and cannot be reasoned with, and therefore should not be given the opportunity to be reasoned with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzxMvGJ7gwE

Second step: Be sure the enemy that you have chosen is nothing like you.
Find obvious differences like race, language, religion, dietary habits
fashion. Emphasize that their soldiers are not doing a job,
they are heartless murderers who enjoy killing!

Fifth step: Show this enemy in actions that seem strange, militant, or different.
Always portray the enemy as non-human, evil, a killing machine.
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Re: Surpreme Court Justice Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby Mookie4ever » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:50 pm

This is news to me. Why do people want to burn the Quran? We believe in the same God and have many of the same prophets etc in our religious texts.

So I guess that I have 2 questions: What's the deal with burning it? and wouldn't this be blasphemy to Christians as well?
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Re: Surpreme Court Justice Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby StlSluggers » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:26 pm

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Re: Surpreme Court Justice Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby Metroid » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:11 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:This is news to me. Why do people want to burn the Quran? We believe in the same God and have many of the same prophets etc in our religious texts.

So I guess that I have 2 questions: What's the deal with burning it? and wouldn't this be blasphemy to Christians as well?

Yeah totally, I don't really get it either. :-S

And that pic is hecka funny. :-b
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Re: Surpreme Court Justice Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby StlSluggers » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:20 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:This is news to me. Why do people want to burn the Quran? We believe in the same God and have many of the same prophets etc in our religious texts.

So I guess that I have 2 questions: What's the deal with burning it? and wouldn't this be blasphemy to Christians as well?

I think we know why someone wants to burn a Quran. It pisses someone else off. Durr. As for the similarities between the reglitions, I can tell you why there’s a big riff between the them despite the sharing the same God. In short, the historical difference between the religions is that they each come from one of Abraham's sons: one of whom who is supposedly born of fear and selfishness, and the other who was born from faith and trust.

Ishmael was the first son born to Abraham. He was conceived when his first wife, Sarah (who was supposedly quite old), gave in to the fear of not being able to bear children for Abraham. Despite having been promised a son through Sarah, Abraham also gave into fear and slept with Hagar. Together, they had a son they named Ishmael. Hagar would eventually butt heads with Sarah over Ishmael and run off into the wilderness with him, but an angel came to her and told her to return home. She did return, but Abraham would continue to be pressured by both his wife and God. Eventually, he obeyed God and banished Hagar and Ishmael into the desert. There, they were said to have been saved by another angel. Ishmael was written as very rough and rowdy man who would eventually find a lot of success through conflict. His many sons took over a great deal of land, and his blood line is said to have produced Muhammad.

Thirteen years after the birth of Ishmael, God fulfilled a lifelong promise to Abraham and gave him a son through Sarah, named Isaac. God would eventually test Abraham's faith by telling him to sacrifice Isaac. Right as Abraham raised his knife to kill his son, an angel stopped the execution and a ram appeared to be used in place of Isaac. This builds the basis for Abraham’s faith and Isaac’s supposed respect for God. Isaac’s blood line would eventually produce Jesus.

Based on these stories, Jews and Christians often hold Ishmael and all descended from him to be products of human fear and selfishness. On the other hand, they consider all descendants of Isaac to be the product of faith and God’s steadfastness to his people. So Islam came from Muhammed, who came from Ishmael, who came from human fear and selfishness. Christianity came from Jesus, who came from Isaac, who came from faith and steadfastness from God. Therein lies the crucial divide.

Now that’s obviously the Jewish/Christian point of view I’m by no means putting that out there as the actual course of events. It's even arguable whether or not Jews/Christians view this correctly. On one hand, God ordered the banishment of Hagar and Ishmael while later calling Isaac Abraham's only son. However, an angel twice saved Hagar and Ishmael as they were dying in the wilderness. You would assume that angel was sent by God, unless you choose to believe the archangel was a fallen archangel*, like Lucifer.

But that's not really why I went through the trouble of typing that out. I wrote all that a) to describe how two groups of people can come from the same principle starting points and end up at two, very different places, and b) so that all of you can harass me about it later.

* - Those who believe in angels write that only the archangels - Gabriel, Michael, & Lucifer - were given free will. All others are basically slaves to God. So if you believe that an angel saved Hagar and Ishmael in spite of God, then you probably believe the angel was one of the archangels capable of making that choice. And if you believe that, then you almost certainly believe that anything from Ishmael is against God's will.
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Re: Surpreme Court Justice Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby Dan Lambskin » Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:38 am

so Terry Jones visited my city this weekend and was denied the right to protest at a Mosque on Good Friday. interesting Free Speech case and i'm curious to see what ends up happening. quick summary is they told him he could protest at City Hall instead and didnt want him disrupting services at all the nearby churches and also were concerned about extra security required and wanted him to post a public safety bond

Terry-Jones-second-pastor-briefly-jailed-after-tense-day

The action came after a six-person jury found during a daylong trial that allowing the pastors to protest would breach the peace. Known for burning a Quran, Florida pastors Terry Jones and Wayne Sapp later posted the bond and were released Friday evening, Dearborn Mayor John O'Reilly Jr. said.

But the court proceeding -- and the actions of Wayne County prosecutors over the past week -- were heavily criticized by constitutional law experts, civil rights advocates and even some Muslim leaders. Though they disagree with Jones' views, they said the county had blatantly trampled on Jones' First Amendment rights.

The office of Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy acknowledged it had never filed a complaint like the one it did in this case. The office had sought a $45,000 "peace bond" from Jones. Maria Miller, a spokeswoman for Worthy, said the complaint -- based on a 19th-Century law -- was an attempt to prevent Jones from breaching the peace, even though Dearborn later denied Jones a permit to protest at the Islamic Center of America, the metro area's largest mosque. Miller said prosecutors proceeded because their complaint was a separate action.

article continues...


Terry-Jones-plans-return-Dearborn-protest
The Quran-burning pastor from Florida was briefly handcuffed and jailed by Dearborn police Friday after a trial stemming from an unusual complaint filed by Wayne County prosecutors.

"It was a total violation of our constitutional rights," Jones told the Free Press on Saturday in an interview from Detroit Metro Airport, where he waited for a flight back to Florida. "It was a mockery of the judicial process."

Now, Jones said he is considering filing a lawsuit against Wayne County and Dearborn authorities and he plans to rally at 5 p.m. Friday.

article continues...
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Re: Surpreme Court Justice Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby AussieDodger » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:33 am

If someone needs a car to "accidentally" run this guy down and back over him a few times, you can borrow mine.
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Re: Surpreme Court Justice Not Sure Burning Quran is a Right

Postby jfg » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:24 pm

The CIA has accidentally killed a lot of people. How are Terry Jones and Fred Phelps not two of them?
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