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Artful's Soccer Thread

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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:54 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:That's fine. Keep cheering for the frontrunners and I'll enjoy the benefits of rooting for the underdog.


Please, you're as dedicated a supporter as lastings is to Citeh. :-D
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:57 pm

Forgot to say that the Huddlestone-Palacios CM pairing in midfield also looked shaky, in that they missed reads through the center of the pitch. Another problem area for Spurs there. They're a decent side, still not quality on the European stage.
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby AquaMan2342 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:58 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:That's fine. Keep cheering for the frontrunners and I'll enjoy the benefits of rooting for the underdog.


Please, you're as dedicated a supporter as lastings is to Citeh. :-D


That's a load of bollocks
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:59 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:
Aw...isn't that too bad....


It was a long shot anyway so oh well. I'm still not too concerned about Spurs being a threat in the Champions League.


That's fine. Keep cheering for the frontrunners and I'll enjoy the benefits of rooting for the underdog.


Your team got 4th last year and is in the Champions League...yeah, major underdog.
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby AquaMan2342 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:05 pm

lol.....their highest finish in history
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:12 pm

Your true underdogs are the teams that will be fighting hard to stave off relegation. Blackpool, West Brom, Wolves, and so on are. I wouldn't really say the likes of Stoke and Fulham are underdogs because most folks in the know, know how tricky a trip up to those places can be. To me, Tottenham, Everton, and Aston Villa aren't underdogs in the truest sense because each of those clubs have a proud winning history (even though they're past the glory days).

Then, you have most clubs in the lower leagues like in the Championship, League One, or League Two who don't have high expectations of ever being promoted to the Premier League (unless you're the perceived top dogs of the Championship). Blackpool are a good example of minnows making it to the big time. A club with a small ground that has had to be renovated for the unprecedented return to the top flight, a dedicated following, a seaside town that isn't the most popular of places to some, and a history of being world-beaters a long time ago (one of English football's greatest players Sir Stanley Matthews played for Blackpool).

Personally, I think the people who jump on "underdog" clubs are just as bad, if not worse, than the glory hunters. So what if you're a glutton for punishment and like to boast about it. Support a club that you really truly love, not because of their successes or failures primarily.
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:16 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:lol.....their highest finish in history


Wrong. Spurs won the football league once in the early 50's and once in the early 60's in Bill Nicholson's glory days as manager. Last season was Spurs' highest finish since the inception of the Premier League in 1992.

That doesn't make them "underdogs", really, when not too long ago Tottenham were regarded as more fashionable than Arsenal some 15-20 years ago. They also have one of the largest fan bases in the UK. Not exactly "underdogs", no? Even Chelsea had underdog status in those days until they turned their fortunes around in the mid-late 90's, and finally into the money-whoring club they've become.
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby AquaMan2342 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:28 pm

The Artful Dodger wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:lol.....their highest finish in history


Wrong. Spurs won the football league once in the early 50's and once in the early 60's in Bill Nicholson's glory days as manager. Last season was Spurs' highest finish since the inception of the Premier League in 1992.

That doesn't make them "underdogs", really, when not too long ago Tottenham were regarded as more fashionable than Arsenal some 15-20 years ago. They also have one of the largest fan bases in the UK. Not exactly "underdogs", no? Even Chelsea had underdog status in those days until they turned their fortunes around in the mid-late 90's, and finally into the money-whoring club they've become.


I was referring to their Premier League finishes....I could care less what they won when i was like -30 years old.

As far as underdog fans being worse than gloryhunters, I'd wholeheartedly disagree. Not every underdog fan is like a Cubs fan (pretentious, whiny woe-is-me). I've been a Detroit Lions fan my entire life.....sticking with a team is worth it in the end when they finally pull it off. Tottenham is not the prototypical underdog, but compared to the big 4 it's going to be an uphill climb for them to even top last year's finish. I enjoy watching the favorites fall.
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby The Artful Dodger » Wed Aug 25, 2010 8:51 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
The Artful Dodger wrote:
AquaMan2342 wrote:lol.....their highest finish in history


Wrong. Spurs won the football league once in the early 50's and once in the early 60's in Bill Nicholson's glory days as manager. Last season was Spurs' highest finish since the inception of the Premier League in 1992.

That doesn't make them "underdogs", really, when not too long ago Tottenham were regarded as more fashionable than Arsenal some 15-20 years ago. They also have one of the largest fan bases in the UK. Not exactly "underdogs", no? Even Chelsea had underdog status in those days until they turned their fortunes around in the mid-late 90's, and finally into the money-whoring club they've become.


I was referring to their Premier League finishes....I could care less what they won when i was like -30 years old.

As far as underdog fans being worse than gloryhunters, I'd wholeheartedly disagree. Not every underdog fan is like a Cubs fan (pretentious, whiny woe-is-me). I've been a Detroit Lions fan my entire life.....sticking with a team is worth it in the end when they finally pull it off. Tottenham is not the prototypical underdog, but compared to the big 4 it's going to be an uphill climb for them to even top last year's finish. I enjoy watching the favorites fall.


The fact you could care less what Spurs did before doesn't really make you a true Spurs supporter, IMO. To be a supporter, you have to embrace the history because if not, whatever your club goes on to achieve doesn't take on that special significance as with fans who eat, sleep, and bleed the club they support. You're a die-hard Lions fan, absolutely, but just a Spurs enthusiast as far as I'm concerned. Maybe I'm being harsh on my standards of what a fan can and can't be, especially when it comes to football, which to me is holier than life itself.

What I meant with regard to underdog fans are those underdog fans who jump on the bandwagon because said club is an "underdog". Think of it this way, it would be ridiculous for me as a Dodger fan to call my club "underdogs" because the team hasn't won the World Series in 22 years. The Dodgers had good teams since then and churned out five NL ROTY in a row in the 90's and they still have some say in the division now. The Dodgers are a lot like Tottenham: they're a "big club" with a proud history. They've had good players and good squads over the years, but it never computed and it wasn't always because some other team had more money than them. Spurs had nearly gone bankrupt 20 years, for instance, and yet they were able to bring in the likes of Juergen Klinsmann, Gary Lineker, and Teddy Sheringham to White Hart Lane. It doesn't make them perfect underdogs, really. Given that the English football league system is a deep one, comprising of hundreds and hundreds of clubs, there are more clubs who fill the underdog tag to a tee. Even then, the likes of Cardiff City and Nottingham Forest aren't "underdogs" because they have a good shot at promotion into the Premier League.

Again, I'm aware that not all underdog fans are the kinds that gloat about how die-hard they are because they support a "people's club". Just saying that I don't see some underdog fans as any different than glory hunters. This is why I took shots at lastings for not being a true supporter, if he sees a team that's considered an also-ran underdog (the Citeh scum) and on the verge of doing great things, and jumping on the bandwagon because of that. It's like making a speculative investment on a property that figures to quintuple in value. It's like picking a club is a business, not a relationship where you grow to love the club you support.
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Re: Artful's Soccer Thread

Postby The Artful Dodger » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:05 pm

Champions League Draw:

Group A: Inter Milan, Werder Bremen, Tottenham, FC Twente
Group B: Lyon, Benfica, Schalke, Hapoel Tel Aviv
Group C: Manchester United, Valencia, Rangers, Bursaspor
Group D: FC Barcelona, Panathinaikos, FC Copenhagen, Rubin Kazan
Group E: Bayern Munich, AS Roma, FC Basel, CFR Cluj
Group F: Chelsea, Marseille, Spartak Moscow, MSK Zilina
Group G: AC Milan, Real Madrid, Ajax, Auxerre
Group H: Arsenal, Shakhtar Donetsk, SC Braga, FK Partizan
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