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Oswalt ---> Phillies (Confirmed)

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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby A Fleshner Fantasy » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:32 pm

LloydChristmas wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
kab21 wrote:
Halladay/Lee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halladay/Oswalt - the reasons given for trading Lee were money and replenishing the farm system. And Oswalt costs more money and the rumored prospects are better.

But most of the backlash now is on how horrible the Lee trade was. We don't how much money the Astros are sending and we don't know for sure what prospects are included. But this might not be a horrible deal (if you aren't using Lee in the equation). I would love it if my team had Oswalt for around 10M/yr for 2.5 seasons. However I am also very impressed with Singleton though.


Halladay/Lee was never an option. They gave up Lee to get Halladay. And even if they did osmehow manage that, then Lee would be gone after this season, because he would cost way too much to resign.


Why do you say they gave up Lee to get Halladay?


Because they traded him in the deal in which they got Halladay... :-?
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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:34 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
LloydChristmas wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
Halladay/Lee was never an option. They gave up Lee to get Halladay. And even if they did osmehow manage that, then Lee would be gone after this season, because he would cost way too much to resign.


Why do you say they gave up Lee to get Halladay?


Because they traded him in the deal in which they got Halladay... :-?

It was two separate deals at the same time. It was incorrectly reported as a three-way deal for a while.
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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby kab21 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:37 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
Halladay/Lee was never an option. They gave up Lee to get Halladay. And even if they did osmehow manage that, then Lee would be gone after this season, because he would cost way too much to resign.


Lee was traded to 'replenish the farm system' after the Halladay trade and for financial reasons. He was not traded for Halladay and the prospects that they got back are pretty mediocre. So they didn't really replenish the farm system. They would have been much better off to find the 9M to pay Lee and take a pair of comp picks at the end of the season. As it is, they are going to be paying Oswalt money and they are potentially giving up a better prospect (Singleton) than all 3 of the prospects they got in the Lee trade.

But this trade isn't necessarily horrible imo if you don't consider the Lee trade.
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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby Rubidium » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:41 pm

kab21 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
jsphlly wrote:Shoulda kept Lee... :~(


No...they got Halladay, which is just as good, so regardless, they'd be going after Oswalt.


Halladay/Lee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Halladay/Oswalt - the reasons given for trading Lee were money and replenishing the farm system. And Oswalt costs more money and the rumored prospects are better.

But most of the backlash now is on how horrible the Lee trade was. We don't how much money the Astros are sending and we don't know for sure what prospects are included. But this might not be a horrible deal (if you aren't using Lee in the equation). I would love it if my team had Oswalt for around 10M/yr for 2.5 seasons. However I am also very impressed with Singleton though.


The Phils got destroyed for Lee. It kills me to see what the Mariners got in return for Lee compared to what the Phils got in return for Lee. However, that said, an important part of Amaro's reasoning for trading Lee was that Amaro reportedly offered him the extension he offered Halladay (3 years/$60m with a fourth year $20m option), but Lee declined and Halladay accepted. Oswalt, in contrast, is already under team control until 2012 for cheaper than we were supposedly willing to offer Lee. So while I agree that the Phils got destroyed in the Lee trade, I feel like Oswalt is a completely separate scenario. Amaro seems to want pitchers that are under team control for a few years, rather than rental players. You can debate Amaro's strategy, but I'm not sure it's fair to say he should have kept Lee if he wanted two ace pitchers. Oswalt and Lee are completely different to him in that regard.

Also, just to clarify, the Phillies aren't willing to pay his whole 2010 and 2011 salary. Rumors are that Houston is eating about half of that, so Oswalt isn't more expensive (2 years/~$12m instead of 1 year/$9m).

Finally, the team is saying they're not trying to trade Werth now that Victorino is injured. I think it has more to do with the fact that we've won 7 in a row and gotten back to within 3.5 of the Braves, but they're claiming it's because of Victorino.
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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby LloydChristmas » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:43 pm

A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
LloydChristmas wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:
Halladay/Lee was never an option. They gave up Lee to get Halladay. And even if they did osmehow manage that, then Lee would be gone after this season, because he would cost way too much to resign.


Why do you say they gave up Lee to get Halladay?


Because they traded him in the deal in which they got Halladay... :-?


As the above couple of posts confirm, it was not a three way trade. The Lee trade was a result Ruben Amaro panicking and attempting to haphazardly replenish the farm system because the Phillies gave up three top-level prospects for Halladay.

Like the guy above said: Who is saying no to Cliff Lee for 2010 at $9 million with comp. picks following the season with the alternative being three so-so prospects? Somebody take a guess at what Jamie Moyer is making this year...

WIth that all said, I like the Oswalt deal if the prospects and money are right, specifically if they can do it without Singleton and pick up at least $10 mil.
Last edited by LloydChristmas on Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:46 pm

kab21 wrote:
A Fleshner Fantasy wrote:But this trade isn't necessarily horrible imo if you don't consider the Lee trade.

It's definitely a pretty good deal in a vacuum if the Phils are only paying 10 mil per year.
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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby Rubidium » Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:56 pm

LloydChristmas wrote:Like the guy above said: Who is saying no to Cliff Lee for 2010 at $9 million with comp. picks following the season with the alternative being three so-so prospects? Somebody take a guess at what Jamie Moyer is making this year...


Jamie Moyer was part of the issue. I'm guessing ownership told Amaro he had to cut salary if he wanted to add Halladay. Clearly nobody would take Moyer's awful $8m salary, and they tried shopping Blanton and reportedly nobody wanted to add his 3 year/$24m deal either. Lee was the only pitcher they could trade with a team willing to take on the full salary he was due.
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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby LloydChristmas » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:01 pm

Rubidium wrote:
LloydChristmas wrote:Like the guy above said: Who is saying no to Cliff Lee for 2010 at $9 million with comp. picks following the season with the alternative being three so-so prospects? Somebody take a guess at what Jamie Moyer is making this year...


Jamie Moyer was part of the issue. I'm guessing ownership told Amaro he had to cut salary if he wanted to add Halladay. Clearly nobody would take Moyer's awful $8m salary, and they tried shopping Blanton and reportedly nobody wanted to add his 3 year/$24m deal either. Lee was the only pitcher they could trade with a team willing to take on the full salary he was due.


I believe it. But let's not get started on the Moyer contract. I'd like to retain my sanity for the day.
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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby bigh0rt » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:01 pm

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Re: Oswalt Possibly ---> Phillies (Pending)

Postby Neato Torpedo » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:02 pm

Looks like Oswalt plans to waive his no-trade clause.
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