Loaiza has been talked about enough. I havn't seen any valid arguments (although I've seen many opinions not based on much except that he did bad before).
He learned a new pitch. Sure, lots of people learn new pitches. Not many have huge jumps in success like Loaiza, but since Loaiza did, why assume he'll regress to the same increase that the average new-pitch-learner has? The cutter significantly improved his game. He still has the cutter. Why people expect stats like he had without this pitch is beyond me. He had a bad 2 week span late in the season (partially due to pitching way more innings than he ever has) and people use that as proof that the entire year was a fluke. If every pitcher who wasn't consistently good during every week or month of the season was deemed not good, there would be very few, if any pitchers who meet these naysayers' standards. We'll see during the season though. I've got a stock-pile of crow for all of the Loaiza haters, so don't ruin your appetites.
"Jack, will you call me, if you're able?"
"I've got your phone number written, in the back of my Bible."
Loaiza wasn't a fluke last year.. when things change, the surrounding environment is affected. In this case, Loaiza "stuff" changed as he added a couple new looks to his arsenal, hitters were not previously exposed to the updated version of Loaiza and took a while to adapt to the change. Obviously if hitters aren't accustomed to a pitcher and then they'll strike out more often than if they had the guy scouted out. As the season wore on, the scouting reports on Loaiza lengthened and hitters began to (or did) solve Loaiza, which is evident in general through his ERA splits. Thus, last year was not a fluke - Loaiza souped up and hitters were caught off guard. With the changes, Loiaza as of last year is a better pitcher than he was before he joined the White Sox, but he's probably not an outstanding pitcher.
[quote:4fef447375="Geek"]The odds of the AL MVP coming from the American League are looking pretty good.[/quote]
Any Jays fan hates him. He's lazy. When he's got a nice contract, he just throws his 5 1/3 and goes home. In my opinion, he's the kind of player who needs heavy contract incentives to pitch up to his potential.
mkooljr1 wrote:Ya know, I've read most of the threads and posts from the trillion made about Loaiza and I never posted my thoughts, but after seeing Madison with his opinion over and over again, i had to jump in. You keep bringing up his 2nd half era and his past statistics, and then say no more than 12 wins and a 4+ era. I find it very funny that you have been given the icon for "fantasy expert" to tell you the truth. Have you bothered to look at the fact his K rate actually improved in the 2nd half? It went from 7.32 to 9.46!! His walk rate increased slightly, and so did his HR rate, but that's a huge improvement in his K rate in the 2nd half, considering his 1st half was already a huge improvement over previous years. So if anything, his 2nd half proves he WASN'T a fluke. You make no mention of any of his peripheral stats, which mean a lot more than era alone. Defense and a pitcher's bullpen, in addition to a bunch of other factors, influence a pitcher's era of which a pitcher has no control over. So choosing to just look at era is a sure-fire way to evaluate pitchers poorly. But if you all wanna avoid Loaiza, be my guest, but i'll be riding him for another year of great stats in my league.
Believe it or not, the one player that took up the most time for me last year was in fact Loaiza. I studied and read everything that I could get my hands on concerning him. I wanted to know if he was in fact for real. I found very little to suggest that his success would continue.
Ok, so his k rate went up the second half. And? Era was higher, BAA was higher, BB/IP was higher, innings per start were down, etc. 1 stat got better and now he's good? Personally, that doesn't sell me as to future success for him. I need more and there are too many question marks.
Something that I don't think you are aware of, and maybe you are but I'll point it out anyway, is that a 4 era and 12 wins would be Loaiza's best season ever not including last year. Check his numbers for yourself. Without last year, Loaiza would have been happy to have a 4 era and 12 wins so I'm not saying that he will fall flat on his face and have a 5 era and 8 wins. Simply saying that he was over his head and that he won't continue that level of success.
I'm glad that you are solid in your opinion. Shows character. Just like I'm solid in mine and I can agree to disagree with you without any insults. If you would like to try and convince me using something other than the one new pitch, his k rate, and his division, then I'd love to discuss it with you. I've seen and studied all three of those factors and still believe a 4 era and 12 wins is what to expect. So far, no one has been able to make a convincing stand as to why he will succeed next year. They give one or two of those reasons and try to stand on it. I've been waiting this whole offseason for someone to convince me I'm wrong. New pitching options are always a good thing right? I'd like to move him off my Do Not Draft List, but I've got absolutely no reason to. Maybe you know something I don't about him, or have some stats that I've overlooked?
Inkubus wrote:Tidbit: batters had a .192 average against Loaiza in 2003.
According to Yahoo stats, BAA for Loaiza was .223 the first half and .245 the second half for a combined .233.
LBJackal wrote:I've got a stock-pile of crow for all of the Loaiza haters, so don't ruin your appetites.
If I'm wrong, then I'm man enough to eat my crow. It's happened before, and will happen again. I feel like I'm safe on this one though.
Yes doctor, I am sick. Sick of those who are spineless. Sick of those who feel self-entitled. Sick of those who are hypocrites. Yes doctor, an army is forming. Yes doctor, there will be a war. Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
inkubus wrote:Tidbit: batters had a .192 average against Loaiza in 2003.
I got curious as to if Yahoo was incorrect on the stat. Yahoo, Sportsline, and ESPN all list Loaiza as having a .233 BAA last year. Unusual for a site to blow a stat that badly. Do you remember where you saw it so the rest of us know to double check that site's numbers?
Yes doctor, I am sick. Sick of those who are spineless. Sick of those who feel self-entitled. Sick of those who are hypocrites. Yes doctor, an army is forming. Yes doctor, there will be a war. Yes doctor, there will be blood.....
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by LBJackal » Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:09 pm 
