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THE Oil Spill

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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby GiantsFan14 » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:41 am

why don't they just use a giant cork?
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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby Neato Torpedo » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:53 pm

Madison wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:Oh, no no no no no Mad, you can't do that. You can't blame the government for not stepping in and setting aside money to bail out BP (yes, I split an infinitive, I don't care at the moment) after always advocating a laissez faire approach, then using the government's inaction to prove that they're a bunch of bumbling fools.


Who said anything about the government bailing out BP? 8-o I said nothing of the sort or anything remotely close to that. Having a backup plan to fix a spill is to protect the citizens of the United States. Bill BP for the cost of the fix, fine them for the spill happening, fine them for their fix not working, and then require a better plan for a fix before letting them drill again. That is all in the best interest of the citizens of the United States, which majority opinion here at the Cafe is that is exactly what the government's job is.

People need to pick a side and stick with it. Either the government is responsible for taking care of its citizens, or it isn't. If it is, then stuff like mandated healthcare is cool (which the majority here supported), but that means the government is also responsible for having a backup plan for when an oil leak happens. Now if the government isn't responsible for having a backup plan to fix an oil leak to protect its citizens, then the majority opinion should be that the govetnment keep its hands off of everything else as well (like mandated healthcare). But it isn't that way, people flip-flop back and forth and back and forth at their whim, which is pretty sad.

I didn't mean financially bail BP out (there's that unsplit infinitive), I meant bail them out by having a disaster plan at the ready for whenever BP screws up. However, that requires money allocated to FEMA and whatever government agency that has jurisdiction over ecological disasters to have the equipment and trained operators on hand, prepared to launch at all times. StlSluggers mentioned a fleet of vacuum boats being on hand for the Gulf War spill. Unfortunately that means higher taxes and stepping in and forcing BP to contribute to the backup plan and you'll have none of that. Sending the bill to BP is all well and good, but that's still being reactive instead of proactive.

For the record, I do believe the government should have had a plan in place, but when there's so many people saying "hands off" when we're in the good times, I have no problem shouldering the majority of the blame on BP. It would have been more ideal for the government to get all up in their grill well beforehand and install stringent requirements for stringent updates of safety equipment. But again, this laissez faire attitude prevents them from doing so.
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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby StlSluggers » Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:13 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:StlSluggers mentioned a fleet of vacuum boats being on hand for the Gulf War spill.

Just to clarify, they were on hand for a spill in the Middle East.

The Gulf War spills were all on land, compliments of Saddam.
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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby markj11 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:38 pm

It looked like I was a BP employee this weekend after changing the oil in my wife's car. Had to throw away my favorite flip-flops, oil and grease under the fingernails is ok but under toenails :-t .
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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby Neato Torpedo » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:25 pm

StlSluggers wrote:Just to clarify, they were on hand for a spill in the Middle East.

The Gulf War spills were all on land, compliments of Saddam.

Righto, my bad. Any further info/sources on the vacuum boats? Cursory Google searches yield little. There appear to be a few vacuum barges in effect in the current spill but I want to know how many were available and used for other spills.

Madison wrote:Oh, and I found this graphic comparing oil spills a few days ago. If it is accurate, this is by far and away not the worst oil spill in history. Not trying to downplay it or anything, just a visual reference is all.

http://www.gavinpotenza.com/worst-oil-spills/

By the way, by the updated median estimates, it's now the third worst spill in history, so the graphic would look more like this:

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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby StlSluggers » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:40 am

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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:19 pm

Don't know if anyone caught this, but:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37778190/ns ... _the_gulf/

The oil emanating from the seafloor contains about 40 percent methane, compared with about 5 percent found in typical oil deposits, said John Kessler, a Texas A&M University oceanographer who is studying the impact of methane from the spill.

That means huge quantities of methane have entered the Gulf, scientists say, potentially suffocating marine life and creating "dead zones" where oxygen is so depleted that nothing lives.

"This is the most vigorous methane eruption in modern human history," Kessler said.


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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby acsguitar » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:36 pm

I'm not sure the Gulf War Oil Spill should count.

Anyways this whole situation is a great reminder that Libertarian's are completely wrong about everything.

BP even with government regulation (although very little) still choose to not follow Voluntary safety procedures in order to save a minuscule amount of money.

This is a horrific disaster and really shows that both Dem's and Repubs are corporate whores ready and willing to do anything to make a buck.

IMO BP is only partially responsible for this. years of inrresponsible greed and lax regulation by the Government has caused this disaster.
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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:43 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:"This is the most vigorous methane eruption in modern human history"

Obviously, this scientist has never observed me after eating Taco Bell.
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Re: THE Oil Spill

Postby RedHopeful » Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:16 pm

Think about this as well regarding the methane:

There is something primordial about BP’s quest for oil in the Gulf of Mexico. It’s an Icarus-like story of super-ambition; of reaching too far, delving too deep.

I don’t know if you’ve stopped to contemplate what BP was trying to do…

The well itself started 5,000 feet below the surface. That’s the depth of the Grand Canyon from the rim.

And then the company attempted to drill more than 30,000 feet below that — Mt. Everest would give 972 feet to spare.

Furthermore, the company sought oil in a dangerous area of the seabed.

It was unstable and many think BP sought it out because seismic data showed huge pools of methane gas — the very gas that blew the top off Deepwater Horizon and killed 11 people.

More than a year ago, geologists criticized Transocean for putting their exploratory rig directly over a massive underground reservoir of methane.

According to the New York Times , BP’s internal “documents show that in March, after several weeks of problems on the rig, BP was struggling with a loss of ‘well control.’ And as far back as 11 months ago, it was concerned about the well casing and the blowout preventer.”

The problem is that this methane, located deep in the bowels of the earth, is under tremendous pressure…

Some speculate as much as 100,000 psi — far too much for current technology to contain. The shutoff vales and safety measures were built for only 1,000 psi.

It was an accident waiting to happen… And there are many that say it could get worse — much worse.

Geologists are pointing to other fissures and cracks that are appearing on the ocean floor around the damaged wellhead.

According to CNN:

The University of South Florida recently discovered a second oil plume in the northeastern Gulf. The first plume was found by Mississippi universities in early May.

And there have been other plumes discovered by submersibles…

Some geologists say that BP’s arrogance has set off a series of events that may be irreversible. There are some that think that BP has drilled into an deep-core oil volcano that cannot be stopped, regardless of the horizontal drills the company claims will stop the oil plume in August.

You can finish the rest of the gloomy article HERE.
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