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is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:28 am

Pogotheostrich wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:Well Kemp has one advantage over Andruw in that he's not a fat lazy sack of crap.

Watching him play CF this year I would disagree. Kemp has shown a huge lack of effort this year IMO and looks like he is going at half speed.

That's true. Looks like that Gold Glove went to his head. Kemp most likely won't hit 50 HR and completely lose his speed, but defensively he already has divebombed. He's ahead of the curve. :-b
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby Nerfherders » Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:37 pm

Did you look at those WAR graphs? Andruw Jones was one the best defensive center fielders to ever play the game - we're talking top 3 in HISTORY. Kemp might be close offensively, but he's no Andruw Jones.
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby cs3 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:59 pm

Nerfherders wrote: Andruw Jones was one the best defensive center fielders to ever play the game - we're talking top 3 in HISTORY. Kemp might be close offensively, but he's no Andruw Jones.

while i agree kemp wont be nearly as good defensively over the course of his career as Jones, i dont think anduw is top 3 all time...
c'mon, just off teh very top of my head he may not even be better than mike cameron, devon white, or torii hunter.
ands that before we even bring mays and Jr. into the discussion
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby jake_twothousandfive » Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:50 pm

cs3 wrote:
Nerfherders wrote: Andruw Jones was one the best defensive center fielders to ever play the game - we're talking top 3 in HISTORY. Kemp might be close offensively, but he's no Andruw Jones.

while i agree kemp wont be nearly as good defensively over the course of his career as Jones, i dont think anduw is top 3 all time...
c'mon, just off teh very top of my head he may not even be better than mike cameron, devon white, or torii hunter.
ands that before we even bring mays and Jr. into the discussion

I think Jones blows Hunter, Cameron, and White out of the water. He might not be top 3 all time, but he's up there.
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:28 pm

cs3 wrote:
Nerfherders wrote: Andruw Jones was one the best defensive center fielders to ever play the game - we're talking top 3 in HISTORY. Kemp might be close offensively, but he's no Andruw Jones.

while i agree kemp wont be nearly as good defensively over the course of his career as Jones, i dont think anduw is top 3 all time...
c'mon, just off teh very top of my head he may not even be better than mike cameron, devon white, or torii hunter.
ands that before we even bring mays and Jr. into the discussion

In the following links, check out the second column from the far right, under "Fld". That measures roughly how many runs they saved with their defense. 0 is average, anything above that means they were a positive contribution to the defense and anything below means they were a net loss.

Hunter: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... osition=OF slightly above average fielder
White: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... osition=OF great fielder
Cameron: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... osition=OF great fielder
Andruw: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?pl ... osition=OF saved more runs than those three combined by those metrics and that's without the benefit of well above average speed that the other three guys had.

Keep in mind, you see a lot of these guys making highlight-reel catches because they take a bad route or get a poor initial read off the ball that TV stations usually don't show. At the last nationally televised Phils/Yanks game, someone hit a line drive to center field and Granderson ran in to make a diving catch. Of course the broadcasters shouted stuff like "what an excellent catch!" But when they showed the replay, it was clear that Granderson was a freakin' statue until the ball was halfway to him, so he had to dive to compensate. Same line drive to Andruw Jones circa '99 and he makes that catch walking, but no one shouts his praise for making that play and it doesn't appear on any highlight reels.

Edit: According to the TotalZone data that we have (granted less accurate than UZR which includes stats measured 2002 and later), Andruw is only beaten by Brooks Robinson. However, that's only because Brooks played in almost 1000 more games and didn't decline until his age 39 season. Check it out:

http://www.fangraphs.com/careerleaders. ... 6&min=1000
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby cs3 » Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:10 pm

...so i guess i was pretty far off about valuable Jones was defensively.
looks like its clear that Kemp will never be the same caliber OF as Andruw, especially if this season is any indication of his true talent
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby Montana168 » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:36 am

Easy guys, this is only the kid's 3rd full season in the bigs and is only 25 years old. He is yet to enter his prime and we've all seen he has the talent to put up 100-30-100-30-.300 at this point and has room to grow. Only time will tell where he ends up, but I will agree it is premature to compare him to Andruw Jones in the lazy category. Anyone think Manny ramirez has anything to do with the attitude of the team, it's not really kemp who is the only one slacking (i.e. martin was caught sleeping off 2b last night that cost them the game). I think everyone is panicing way too much on kemp, it's a long season and players go through slumps. This just happens to be his slump, he'll get it going IMO.
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby k.k. » Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:49 am

I covet Kemp. Truly. I've never been a fantasy owner of his, just hasn't happened. I've love to be. Matt Kemp IS NOT the next Andruw Jones. That's absurd. Sorry for saying so.

He'll get going again. As someone else said, take it easy.
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby kaiser » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:09 am

Neato Torpedo wrote:[
Well Kemp has one advantage over Andruw in that he's not a fat lazy sack of crap.


Zing! Agree 100%. Although, I have to say that dating Rhianna is not a good sign...
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Re: is Matt Kemp the next Anruw Jones?

Postby kaiser » Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:14 am

Neato Torpedo wrote: Same line drive to Andruw Jones circa '99 and he makes that catch walking, but no one shouts his praise for making that play and it doesn't appear on any highlight reels.


Or, he attempts to make a basket catch and the ball pops out of his glove for a double.

Jones was a great fielder, for sure. I have no problem saying he was one of the best of all time, defensively. I guess, as a Braves fan, my frustration with Jones is that he could have been so much greater, if he had ever committed himself fully to the game. He is lazy, pure and simple, and it cost him a spot in the history books, I think.
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