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Best OF in MLB?

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Re: Best OF in MLB?

Postby Montana168 » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:37 pm

thejusman1 wrote:
neoforce wrote:
Montana168 wrote:
Gold Glove Winners in 2009:
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/awards/mlb_award ... es_history

Is there another Matt Kemp in the bigs? :-?


Montana, you've got 1000 posts. I assume a good percentage here in the baseball side of the cafe. You must know by now that most people in the Cafe don't think the Gold Glove award is a good measurement of defensive ability? That there are plenty of newer ways to measure defensive ability?

Hard to win an argument about defensive ability here based on Gold Glove winners.

By the way: I don't have an opinion on the best OF today. There are a bunch that are pretty close. I am pretty sure no one could argue about the best infield. Even with the corners having an off year so far, no one can compare to the Yankees in the infield.


Rollins, Polanco, Utley, Howard? Not that I think it's better than the Yankees IF, which I do agree is better, but I think it can compare at least.



Yeah, I guess I better shut my mouth now. !+) Guess I just don't pay too much attention to the defensive deep stats like WAR etc., as I do all the other stats for offensive ability since they are more important for fantasy baseball (although defense can factor in a bit, i.e. Jake Fox). So fine, I will conceed that Kemp is a horrible defender.

But I agree, without highjacking the thread, the Yanks definitely have the best INF. I will agree that the Phils INF is AT LEAST comparable, as jusman stated, but they certainly don't beat it. Even if howard/utley/rollins cancel out teix/cano/jeter, A-rod still destroys polanco.
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Re: Best OF in MLB?

Postby drunkmonkey » Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:24 pm

Neato Torpedo wrote:Joe Crede (.832 OPS, 30 HR, 94 RBI, 0 SB) won the Silver Slugger over A-Rod (.914 OPS, 35 HR, 121 RBI, 15 SB) in 2006, so he must have been the better hitter that year. :-? Also, the Bartolo Colon debacle.


To be fair, I don't think you can measure a player by HR or RBI anymore either. What were their WARs and VORPs?
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Re: Best OF in MLB?

Postby Neato Torpedo » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:15 pm

drunkmonkey wrote:
Neato Torpedo wrote:Joe Crede (.832 OPS, 30 HR, 94 RBI, 0 SB) won the Silver Slugger over A-Rod (.914 OPS, 35 HR, 121 RBI, 15 SB) in 2006, so he must have been the better hitter that year. :-? Also, the Bartolo Colon debacle.


To be fair, I don't think you can measure a player by HR or RBI anymore either. What were their WARs and VORPs?

They were and still are irrelevant, because they take defense into account and the Silver Slugger is a hitting award. But if you want comprehensive hitting/baserunning stats, A-Rod had a wOBA of .391 and speed factor of 4.6 and Crede put up .348/1.7 numbers. ;-7
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Re: Best OF in MLB?

Postby Pogotheostrich » Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:49 pm

Montana168 wrote:
Pogotheostrich wrote:
Montana168 wrote:I'm takin the dodgers all day. Matt Kemp is a gold-glove CF that can hit 30 homers, 30 steals, and hit over .300. Ethier has shown he can mash 30 homers, hit for a solid avg, and can hit the late-inning walk-offs when it counts. While Manny is certainly not the OF he was in his hey-day, he can still hit for a solid avg and contribute 25 homers and close to 100 rbi's, even though he is a liability in LF.


Kemp has been absolutely brutal in the OF this year.


I didn't say he wasn't. I said he is a gold glove CF, meaning he owns a gold glove and there will probably be more in the future. Just because he has a bad half-year defensively and on the basepaths, doesn't mean that half defines the player he was or is going to be. I was simply stating why I believe the Dodgers have the best OF as a whole, including the criteria i used to measure them by. I'd like to hear the same for you as to why you picked the Cards, other than they are your favorite team. :-D


I don't see why an award sitting on a shelf makes any difference. The Dodgers have the worst defensive OF in baseball that is why I'd take the Cardinals over them.
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Re: Best OF in MLB?

Postby GoodOl'Days » Wed Jun 23, 2010 1:44 am

thejusman1 wrote:
GoodOl'Days wrote:
drunkmonkey wrote:
:-?
Dodger Stadium: 330-375-395-375-330
Arlington: 330-380-400-380-330
Busch III: 335-375-400-375-335


The #1 misconception about hitting vs pitching parks has to be that Dodgers stadium is a strong pitchers park. It used to be when there was more foul territory, but it's been closer to neutral based on my memory looking at it the past three years.


Why is it that according to MLB Park Factors, Arlington rates at a 1.164, Busch a 1.051 and Dodgers a .937 then?

Source: http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor


I don't trust the ESPN park factors. After I got off work I was able to check them out on BBreference. Dodgers stadium has rated a pitchers park and hitters park lately. It favored pitchers a lot more a few years back and in my experience has still been overrated as a strong pitchers park.

100 is even, + 100 is a hitters park, under favors pitchers.

Dodgers Stadium:
2006 Batting - 103, Pitching - 102
2007 Batting - 105, Pitching - 104
2008 Batting - 96, Pitching - 95
2009 Batting - 95, Pitching - 93
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Re: Best OF in MLB?

Postby ninremix » Wed Jun 23, 2010 2:52 am

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