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Re: A-Rod

Postby Geek » Wed May 12, 2010 5:56 pm

MTUCache wrote:
Geek wrote:- It takes more than 30/100 to count as elite at 3b, in my opinion.
- I define elite as clearly belonging in the top 2-3 at his position...
- I'd say there are probably only two elite options at 3b--Longoria and Wright.

After that, you have A-Rod, Zimmermann, Youkilis, and maybe Mark Reynolds (I'm still a skeptic).

A-Rod is still going to be productive, but he's not a superstar performer anymore.


Anybody who wants to point out ARod's faults and the cracks in the armor is more than welcome to. I don't deny he's on the downhill side of his career, but the points you're trying to make here are just silly.

You honestly don't think that ARod is going to hit 30/100, but you have so much more evidence that Wright will?

I'll give you Longo. I agree he's slightly ahead of ARod (in any format), but I think you're just talking out of your azz if you're trying to come up with reasons why ARod isn't elite while other guys are. That's just crazy talk. You can pull out any statistic you want, you can pretend to define any trends you want, but this guy is the definition of "elite". He'll be a first-round pick next year, even if Longo is drafted ahead of him. To try and argue anything otherwise is just trying to be spiteful and incendiary.


Wright steals bases like a fiend too--people forget that he stole 27 bases last year even though his power numbers were down.

As far as A-Rod being a first rounder next year, I'd take these guys over him:

Pujols
Hanley
Teixiera
Howard
Cabrera
Lincecum
Utley
Longoria
Kemp
Braun
Wright
Halladay

and I might consider taking some others (e.g. Mauer, Prince Fielder, Justin Upton) too. We'll see where everyone winds up at the end of the year.

We can revisit this argument at the end of the year.
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Re: A-Rod

Postby MTUCache » Wed May 12, 2010 6:07 pm

Okay so in the span of a week we've gone from equating him to Zimm/Youk/Reynolds and saying he's "no longer a superstar" to having him being somewhere between 13-16 on your board. Right? (And probably in the 8-12 range in a Yahoo/ESPN rankings).

Not that I can read your mind or anything, but I'm pretty sure you were arguing the point that ARod was a hurt old dude who was just about washed up and done. If you don't think he can hit 30/100 and he's not a SB guy, why have him even that high? Here I thought we were going to have a real debate about whether or not you can defend your argument that he shouldn't even be in the top-50, and you go and ruin it by completely backing off your points. :-t
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Re: A-Rod

Postby Geek » Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:25 pm

MTUCache wrote:Okay so in the span of a week we've gone from equating him to Zimm/Youk/Reynolds and saying he's "no longer a superstar" to having him being somewhere between 13-16 on your board. Right? (And probably in the 8-12 range in a Yahoo/ESPN rankings).

Not that I can read your mind or anything, but I'm pretty sure you were arguing the point that ARod was a hurt old dude who was just about washed up and done. If you don't think he can hit 30/100 and he's not a SB guy, why have him even that high? Here I thought we were going to have a real debate about whether or not you can defend your argument that he shouldn't even be in the top-50, and you go and ruin it by completely backing off your points. :-t

His value is somewhere between a mid-second rounder and a fifth rounder. We don't know exactly because there are such mixed signals--HoF resume vs. sharp decline in production and health.

He's now battling a groin injury. He just can't stay healthy.
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Re: A-Rod

Postby gnarboots11 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:33 pm

He was on my do not draft list this year, and next year he's on my Grady Sizemore's List of Players To Definately Not Draft!
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Re: A-Rod

Postby urbanbreez » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:02 pm

gnarboots11 wrote:He was on my do not draft list this year, and next year he's on my Grady Sizemore's List of Players To Definately Not Draft!


If he were available in the 2nd rd of your draft this year, you take a pass? Because he's on the DO NOT list? And next year he's going to pull a Grady and become completely irrelevant? You're worse at this than you are at gambling. It's a-rod... love or hate his frosty tips he can go ape in any given month. Also do not draft list are almost always a bad idea. You need a "not taking him at this spot" list.
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Re: A-Rod

Postby Geek » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:21 pm

gnarboots11 wrote:He was on my do not draft list this year, and next year he's on my Grady Sizemore's List of Players To Definately Not Draft!


I wouldn't put him on a 'do not draft list" but I certainly won't draft him in any leagues next year--there will be at least one person in every league who thinks he's still a 40/20 guy instead of a 30/5 guy and will overpay accordingly.
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Re: A-Rod

Postby urbanbreez » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:46 pm

Geek wrote:
gnarboots11 wrote:He was on my do not draft list this year, and next year he's on my Grady Sizemore's List of Players To Definately Not Draft!


I wouldn't put him on a 'do not draft list" but I certainly won't draft him in any leagues next year--there will be at least one person in every league who thinks he's still a 40/20 guy instead of a 30/5 guy and will overpay accordingly.

Don't overpay, yes but do not draft, no.
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Re: A-Rod

Postby Geek » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:14 am

urbanbreez wrote:
Geek wrote:
gnarboots11 wrote:He was on my do not draft list this year, and next year he's on my Grady Sizemore's List of Players To Definately Not Draft!


I wouldn't put him on a 'do not draft list" but I certainly won't draft him in any leagues next year--there will be at least one person in every league who thinks he's still a 40/20 guy instead of a 30/5 guy and will overpay accordingly.

Don't overpay, yes but do not draft, no.


Actually, since it's turned out that it's his right hip that's causing his problems (it's going to bother him the rest of his career), he is going on my Do Not Draft List. His injury downside (will never be fully healthy again, hip injury could shorten his career) is now greater than his upside (Konerko/Matsui/Papi type numbers).
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Re: A-Rod

Postby Geek » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:22 am

MTUCache wrote:
Geek wrote:- It takes more than 30/100 to count as elite at 3b, in my opinion.
- I define elite as clearly belonging in the top 2-3 at his position...
- I'd say there are probably only two elite options at 3b--Longoria and Wright.

After that, you have A-Rod, Zimmermann, Youkilis, and maybe Mark Reynolds (I'm still a skeptic).

A-Rod is still going to be productive, but he's not a superstar performer anymore.


Anybody who wants to point out ARod's faults and the cracks in the armor is more than welcome to. I don't deny he's on the downhill side of his career, but the points you're trying to make here are just silly.

You honestly don't think that ARod is going to hit 30/100, but you have so much more evidence that Wright will?

I'll give you Longo. I agree he's slightly ahead of ARod (in any format), but I think you're just talking out of your azz if you're trying to come up with reasons why ARod isn't elite while other guys are. That's just crazy talk. You can pull out any statistic you want, you can pretend to define any trends you want, but this guy is the definition of "elite". He'll be a first-round pick next year, even if Longo is drafted ahead of him. To try and argue anything otherwise is just trying to be spiteful and incendiary.


Well, I guess every fantasy baseball owner is going to be incredibly spiteful and incendiary when they pass on him in the first round next year--because no one is drafting A-Rod in the first round next year.

Guaranteed.
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Re: A-Rod

Postby urbanbreez » Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:49 am

Guaranteed.


Lot of baseball left this year, old chap. I'm booking this quote in case you need a helping of your own words to eat later.
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