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Big Papi back..??

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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby urbanbreez » Mon May 24, 2010 10:16 pm

Matthias wrote:
urbanbreez wrote:Does this mean Ortiz is 'fixen to serve a big plate of eat your words to those (especially you redsox fans) that have completely written him off, not just in fantasy by IRL?

When his OBP cracks .360, let's talk.

Agreed.
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby jswede » Mon May 24, 2010 10:34 pm

Matthias wrote:
urbanbreez wrote:Does this mean Ortiz is 'fixen to serve a big plate of eat your words to those (especially you redsox fans) that have completely written him off, not just in fantasy by IRL?

When his OBP cracks .360, let's talk.


might not be all too long. .238 in April, but .380 over the last 4 weeks and .397 since 5/1.

should we call you, or do you want to meet here?
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby Matthias » Mon May 24, 2010 10:39 pm

jswede wrote:
Matthias wrote:
urbanbreez wrote:Does this mean Ortiz is 'fixen to serve a big plate of eat your words to those (especially you redsox fans) that have completely written him off, not just in fantasy by IRL?

When his OBP cracks .360, let's talk.

might not be all too long. .238 in April, but .380 over the last 4 weeks and .397 since 5/1.

should we call you, or do you want to meet here?

Oh, I'm around, just like I have been for the past 2 seasons when I pointed out the beginning of Ortiz's decline.
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue May 25, 2010 11:43 am

Matthias wrote:
jswede wrote:
Matthias wrote:When his OBP cracks .360, let's talk.

might not be all too long. .238 in April, but .380 over the last 4 weeks and .397 since 5/1.

should we call you, or do you want to meet here?

Oh, I'm around, just like I have been for the past 2 seasons when I pointed out the beginning of Ortiz's decline.


I'm not really sure why you keep patting yourself on the back for this. It's usually pretty clear that power hitters of his makeup experience a certain amount of decline once they reach their mid 30's. That being said, you're obviously exaggerating in this case. Will he put up .300/.400 lines? No, but he's still been able to provide solid power numbers the last three years outside of his poor April/May last year and April this year. He's on pace to hit 41 homers this season. Will he? No, but why can't he hit 35? He led the AL from June on last season and it looks pretty clear that he's found it again this season....and for a player that seems to be on such an obvious decline, that's pretty solid production.

Also, yes I am aware of his saber stats. Yes, he's death against lefties. I'm glad I did not give up on him on the three teams I own him with though.
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby Matthias » Tue May 25, 2010 12:32 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
Matthias wrote:
jswede wrote:might not be all too long. .238 in April, but .380 over the last 4 weeks and .397 since 5/1.

should we call you, or do you want to meet here?

Oh, I'm around, just like I have been for the past 2 seasons when I pointed out the beginning of Ortiz's decline.

I'm not really sure why you keep patting yourself on the back for this. It's usually pretty clear that power hitters of his makeup experience a certain amount of decline once they reach their mid 30's. That being said, you're obviously exaggerating in this case. Will he put up .300/.400 lines? No, but he's still been able to provide solid power numbers the last three years outside of his poor April/May last year and April this year. He's on pace to hit 41 homers this season. Will he? No, but why can't he hit 35? He led the AL from June on last season and it looks pretty clear that he's found it again this season....and for a player that seems to be on such an obvious decline, that's pretty solid production.

Also, yes I am aware of his saber stats. Yes, he's death against lefties. I'm glad I did not give up on him on the three teams I own him with though.

Why? Because when I called it out, he was on a streak of 5 straight years of elite production. When I pointed out that his swing looked different and maybe he looked different, people downplayed it and said small sample size and why don't you drop him for Xaiver Nady and this that and the other. Obviously, he declined. And he declined starting that year. He only hit .238 and slugged .462 overall that year. And last year, after leading the AL in HRs from June onward, he had a respectable season, but still not one up to the standards of his past. So when someone says, "Hey, look, he's been really great this past month!!! Are you going to be around to talk about it when he comes back!!!!" then I say, yah, I've been around. I'm not jumping ship this past April and then jumping back on this May. I've already jumped ship on Ortiz as a fantasy option and I stand by that, just like I have been.

And you, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one side, you say, "Yah, he's declined. That happens to players like him." On the other side, you're saying, "I'm glad I didn't jump ship in the 3 leagues I drafted him in" so no matter what happens, you're golden. Me, I didn't draft him. And I won't. I'd rather draft players like Adam LaRoche who I have a good bead on what they're going to do. So why am I patting myself on the back for calling Ortiz? Well, first and obviously, because I was right. Second, because it was an unpopular opinion at the time. And lastly, because if you had listened to me, you would have drafted steadier players so you don't have to play this, "I hope I hit the 3 months of right production in a 6 month season" game.
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby AquaMan2342 » Tue May 25, 2010 1:11 pm

Matthias wrote:And you, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one side, you say, "Yah, he's declined. That happens to players like him." On the other side, you're saying, "I'm glad I didn't jump ship in the 3 leagues I drafted him in" so no matter what happens, you're golden. Me, I didn't draft him. And I won't. I'd rather draft players like Adam LaRoche who I have a good bead on what they're going to do. So why am I patting myself on the back for calling Ortiz? Well, first and obviously, because I was right. Second, because it was an unpopular opinion at the time. And lastly, because if you had listened to me, you would have drafted steadier players so you don't have to play this, "I hope I hit the 3 months of right production in a 6 month season" game.


Right about what? That he shouldn't be drafted within the first twelve rounds? Congratulations on that genius call. I mean, what exactly did you call? That he wasn't going to hit .330 with 50 jacks for the rest of his career? Of course he was bound to decline.....but he hasn't fallen off the cliff as you would make it seem and it definitely doesn't mean he's irrelevant in a fantasy sense. I guess I'd just rather listen to myself though....seeing as I bought low on him last year and drafted him late this year. And yeah....you're right....I am golden either way....if he busts I drop my 15th round pick.....if he hits I reap the power benefits of my 15th round pick. He's not really killing my team if he's not producing, but his value was too great to pass up this year....so thanks for helping push it down!
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby Matthias » Tue May 25, 2010 1:46 pm

AquaMan2342 wrote:
Matthias wrote:And you, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one side, you say, "Yah, he's declined. That happens to players like him." On the other side, you're saying, "I'm glad I didn't jump ship in the 3 leagues I drafted him in" so no matter what happens, you're golden. Me, I didn't draft him. And I won't. I'd rather draft players like Adam LaRoche who I have a good bead on what they're going to do. So why am I patting myself on the back for calling Ortiz? Well, first and obviously, because I was right. Second, because it was an unpopular opinion at the time. And lastly, because if you had listened to me, you would have drafted steadier players so you don't have to play this, "I hope I hit the 3 months of right production in a 6 month season" game.

Right about what? That he shouldn't be drafted within the first twelve rounds? Congratulations on that genius call. I mean, what exactly did you call? That he wasn't going to hit .330 with 50 jacks for the rest of his career? Of course he was bound to decline.....but he hasn't fallen off the cliff as you would make it seem and it definitely doesn't mean he's irrelevant in a fantasy sense. I guess I'd just rather listen to myself though....seeing as I bought low on him last year and drafted him late this year. And yeah....you're right....I am golden either way....if he busts I drop my 15th round pick.....if he hits I reap the power benefits of my 15th round pick. He's not really killing my team if he's not producing, but his value was too great to pass up this year....so thanks for helping push it down!

I'm not sure what you're so proud about. The value you gave for Ortiz is the value I gave for Vlad and more value than I gave for Adam LaRoche. And if you read through the beginning of this thread, many of your fellow Ortiz owners dropped him to the waivers in the first month of the season. So they're getting even less out of him than you are.

Look: it's not like I said, "In some future year Ryan Braun will suck" and then link to it ten years later when he did. I said, two years ago, that Ortiz looked worse. For the past two years, he has been worse. He's had some streaky months, that if you happened to own him at that time, you were paid dividends. But his play, on the whole, for the past two years and for this year so far, has been worse than what it had been. He's not at the point of irrelevancy but he is at the point of undependability. He was probably dropped off of half the rosters he was drafted onto this year. Me, I don't like those guys. I don't want someone to stink up my roster for a month to find someone on the WW. I'd rather draft guys that are good and are going to produce. Obviously, not all of them pan out so I have to do some roster turnover during the year but I don't go into the beginning of the season looking at guys as waiver fodder. Draft spots are too valuable.

I mentioned once, in this thread, that I made the call on Ortiz 2 years ago after some guy said he made the call a few weeks ago. I then reiterated it after someone asked me if I was still going to be here in maybe the next month when Ortiz's numbers might be respectable. Honestly, you have made much a bigger deal out of this than I have. I've spilled some electronic ink trying to explain it but you've been way more loud and aggressive about it than I would have been. Looks like it's time for a mirror check.
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby shmolex » Thu Jun 03, 2010 12:02 am

yeah, he's a beast
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby lastingsgriller » Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:16 am

I don't know what to say. I don't like David Ortiz. I don't think he is good. but after his sh*tty April, he was dropped in my league and I picked him up. This has been unreal. :-L what a freakshow. is it gonna end soon? or can I just ride this all the way to the cahmpionship???
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Re: Big Papi back..??

Postby AquaMan2342 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:47 am

Matthias wrote:
urbanbreez wrote:Does this mean Ortiz is 'fixen to serve a big plate of eat your words to those (especially you redsox fans) that have completely written him off, not just in fantasy by IRL?

When his OBP cracks .360, let's talk.


.355 as he continues to rake.
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