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Yahoo! and minor league players

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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby RDD15 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:20 pm

Fantasy Sports Genie wrote:So I've again confirmed:

- When our provider tells us a player is rostered, it does indeed mean the active roster and not the 40 man roster.
- In the pre-season, Strasburg (being the most visible example) was indeed on the active roster prior to being optioned to AA.


This could be confusing for some (probably most) people.

From what I understand, from Sept 1 until Opening Day, the 40-man roster is the same thing as the active roster (unless a team is in the playoffs, upon which they have to go to a 25 man roster for the playoffs). Basically, the 25 man roster does not exist during spring training, so for the purpose of most fantasy baseball drafts, all players on an MLB 40-man roster will be considered on the active roster. The only time a player would be on the 40-man but not in the Yahoo! player pool would be when they are added to their first career 40-man roster between Opening Day and Sept 1, and at that point they would be added to the Yahoo! pool on Sept 1.

Not sure if my thought is completely correct, but I would be willing to bet that this is how Strasburg was considered on the "active" roster this spring.
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby WittyC » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:44 am

Fantasy Sports Genie wrote:So I've again confirmed:

- When our provider tells us a player is rostered, it does indeed mean the active roster and not the 40 man roster.
- In the pre-season, Strasburg (being the most visible example) was indeed on the active roster prior to being optioned to AA.


Guess I'll just watch closer next season. Thanks for the heads up and for providing me with a concrete answer.
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby WittyC » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:12 pm

RDD15 wrote:
Fantasy Sports Genie wrote:So I've again confirmed:

- When our provider tells us a player is rostered, it does indeed mean the active roster and not the 40 man roster.
- In the pre-season, Strasburg (being the most visible example) was indeed on the active roster prior to being optioned to AA.


This could be confusing for some (probably most) people.

From what I understand, from Sept 1 until Opening Day, the 40-man roster is the same thing as the active roster (unless a team is in the playoffs, upon which they have to go to a 25 man roster for the playoffs). Basically, the 25 man roster does not exist during spring training, so for the purpose of most fantasy baseball drafts, all players on an MLB 40-man roster will be considered on the active roster. The only time a player would be on the 40-man but not in the Yahoo! player pool would be when they are added to their first career 40-man roster between Opening Day and Sept 1, and at that point they would be added to the Yahoo! pool on Sept 1.

Not sure if my thought is completely correct, but I would be willing to bet that this is how Strasburg was considered on the "active" roster this spring.


Now that makes more sense to me (didn't read this before my last post).

Wouldn't Strasburg's service time begin if they actually put him on the 25-man roster during spring training (if there even is such a thing as an active roster during spring training). I can't imagine why any MLB team would want to start a player's service time before they had to -- especially a top-line prospect like Strasburg.

Genie: Can you confirm that there is a difference between the active roster and the 40-man roster during spring training? I cannot find the answer anywhere. I'm going to send out some emails to a couple of bloggers to see if they know the answer.
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:48 pm

I cannot, because the other poster is correct: during spring training, the 40 man roster *is* the active roster. That may be where your confusion was coming from. The active roster shrinks to 25 at season start, then later expands again.
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby RDD15 » Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:32 pm

WittyC wrote:
Wouldn't Strasburg's service time begin if they actually put him on the 25-man roster during spring training (if there even is such a thing as an active roster during spring training). I can't imagine why any MLB team would want to start a player's service time before they had to -- especially a top-line prospect like Strasburg.



I don't believe that the service time clock runs from Sept 1 through Opening Day.
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby WittyC » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:25 pm

Fantasy Sports Genie wrote:I cannot, because the other poster is correct: during spring training, the 40 man roster *is* the active roster. That may be where your confusion was coming from. The active roster shrinks to 25 at season start, then later expands again.


So is it accurate to say that every player who was on a 40-man roster during spring training is now listed in the Yahoo! universe? Because that certainly does not appear to be the case. From the Cubs' squad alone:

John Gaub
Rafael Dolis
Blake Parker
Wellington Castillo
James Aducci

All of those players were optioned to the minors in March, which means they must have been on the 40-man roster during Spring Training (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_transactions#Options. None of those players appear in the Yahoo! universe. How can you explain this inconsistency?
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby Fantasy Sports Genie » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:19 pm

I'm following up on those players in particular yet again, but it sounds to me like your assumption has gotten flipped here. There is no claim that if you choose the option to only see players if they hit the mlb roster that you'll see *all* players that hit a major league roster. The feature means you won't see anyone who *didn't* hit a major league roster. So look at it like this:

1) There is a pool of players deemed interesting and worth putting into the game.
2) We identify which of them have hit a major league roster

Depending on how you set that option for your league, you see either the results of step 1, or step 2.
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby WittyC » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:29 pm

Fantasy Sports Genie wrote:I'm following up on those players in particular yet again, but it sounds to me like your assumption has gotten flipped here. There is no claim that if you choose the option to only see players if they hit the mlb roster that you'll see *all* players that hit a major league roster. The feature means you won't see anyone who *didn't* hit a major league roster. So look at it like this:

1) There is a pool of players deemed interesting and worth putting into the game.
2) We identify which of them have hit a major league roster

Depending on how you set that option for your league, you see either the results of step 1, or step 2.


So according to Step 1, one of Yahoo!'s criteria for adding players to the is how "interesting" that player is. I'd call that a pretty subjective process. So let's not forget what you said just a few posts ago...

The information you received from customer care is incorrect. If you can give me any more information about your exchange with customer care, please PM me so I can explain to them how this actually works.

The players you are mentioning, like Strasburg, *were* placed on their team's official roster during the preseason. That is why they appear in the game even if you have that setting in place. There is nothing more we can do than be consistent and convey what the teams have done; I'd agree it is unfortunate for your wishes if he was briefly placed on the roster, but as soon as we go back to subjectively deciding whether to include him or not, you're right back where you were without this feature in place at all.


So what you're telling me is that if Yahoo!'s process for adding players to the universe is subjective, then this feature is useless. And you just said players were chosen according to how "interesting" they are; a subjective measure by any standard. Therefore, what you are telling me, is that this feature is useless.

No one asked you to look into this. But what was your final conclusion? After all of this, you ended up siding with the same customer support representative you chastised in the first place. The policy is what it is, but as you said, the policy renders the option useless. Fortunately, this redundancy is an industry standard, so I never actually got an answer to my original query, which was, do any fantasy providers add players to the universe by only objective standards. The answer is a resounding no. So I'll deal with it. I just wish it hadn't taken two weeks and hours of emails to find the reason why.
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby bigmck » Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:40 pm

Yahoo and other stat services have an option to include either AL players, NL players or both for a particular league in the player universe. If a player is in the Minors, he could be excluded from the player universe the same way when a player is traded from one league to the other. If Strasberg were on the Nats "active roster" during spring training, but was sent to AA just before the season, he could be excluded from the player universe using the same programing logic. It would not be that hard. == This thread started about Mike Leake. Wasn't he on the Nats opening day roster?
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Re: Yahoo! and minor league players

Postby WittyC » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:18 pm

bigmck wrote:Yahoo and other stat services have an option to include either AL players, NL players or both for a particular league in the player universe. If a player is in the Minors, he could be excluded from the player universe the same way when a player is traded from one league to the other. If Strasberg were on the Nats "active roster" during spring training, but was sent to AA just before the season, he could be excluded from the player universe using the same programing logic. It would not be that hard. == This thread started about Mike Leake. Wasn't he on the Nats opening day roster?


Yeah. Turns out Yahoo! quit caring about this issue. It's just a broken system, but every other provider does the same thing, so that apparently makes it acceptable. Luckily, Yahoo! has concentrated their development efforts on adding highlight clips to the My Team page, because that's a feature everyone was begging for. :-S
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