bigh0rt wrote:I'm not really in agreement here that it's unethical to stream or churn pitchers or players if your league allows it. What if this is the general consensus among the league members that this is how the game is played? More power to them. That's how some leagues like to get down, and far be it from me to harp on them.
That said, I simply wouldn't play in a league where steps haven't been taken to make 'strategies' like these null and void. It wouldn't be a question of ethics, rather simply playing in a league that requires a different set of skills (in my opinion, more advanced ones; I think a monkey could stream and churn their way to a strong finish if league settings allowed it) to be successful. Things like GP limits, IP limits, and Add/Drop limits are designed to allow the cream to rise to the top, as opposed to the most active manager. In fact, any constraint or modification made for a league should be implemented with that thought in mind.
On a somewhat related note, y'all are getting way too hyped about all of this.
my favorite bit of the whole thread.. right here
That's how some leagues like to get down, and far be it from me to harp on them. - I don't really care how you play, just don't do it in my league.
in my opinion, more advanced ones; I think a monkey could stream and churn their way to a strong finish if league settings allowed it - Tru dat.
On a somewhat related note, y'all are getting way too hyped about all of this - completely guilty as charged. I got too worked up about this. I just started thinking about if this crap was going on in my league and how pissed I would be. In the end you can play your way and I'll play mine and we'll all be happy in our own way. I don't envision JCook3127, Kaiser and LastingsGriller participating in a league together, but thats ok. We have fun in our own leagues.
bigh0rt wrote: That said, I simply wouldn't play in a league where steps haven't been taken to make 'strategies' like these null and void. It wouldn't be a question of ethics, rather simply playing in a league that requires a different set of skills (in my opinion, more advanced ones; I think a monkey could stream and churn their way to a strong finish if league settings allowed it) to be successful. Things like GP limits, IP limits, and Add/Drop limits are designed to allow the cream to rise to the top, as opposed to the most active manager. In fact, any constraint or modification made for a league should be implemented with that thought in mind.
On a somewhat related note, y'all are getting way too hyped about all of this.
Bighort, I said this same thing about fifty posts ago. But somewhere in all the histrionics, I got labled a "streamer," which, with some of these folks, is a really, really, really big deal.
I didn't realize I was getting "worked up." I'm just making as persuasive an argument as I can in defense of the non-streamers. If that comes off as over-the-top, I guess that's just my tendency to passionately debate any topic. I don't personally hate streamers. For chrissakes, it is still fantasy baseball. But I do despise the practice enough that I can comfortably say I hate the tactic, and I refuse to be in a league where it's allowed/beneficial.
thejusman1 wrote:I didn't realize I was getting "worked up." I'm just making as persuasive an argument as I can in defense of the non-streamers. If that comes off as over-the-top, I guess that's just my tendency to passionately debate any topic. I don't personally hate streamers. For chrissakes, it is still fantasy baseball. But I do despise the practice enough that I can comfortably say I hate the tactic, and I refuse to be in a league where it's allowed/beneficial.
ayebatter wrote:1. Never take h2h leagues too seriously. 2. Never play h2h leagues for $.
1. Disagree. 2. Agreed.
biesbol wrote:several I have thought about: 1. do not collude 2. do not own multiple teams in the same league 3. do not keep players on your DL who have been activated 4. DO check your team at least once a week 5. DO respond to trade offers 6. do not waive your entire team in some childish protest to a trade
best list i have seen posted yet. 4. most guys i know check daily
thejusman1 wrote:There's just no point in trying to convince guys like Kaiser, WickedSmaat, and other streamers that streaming is an unethical tactic.
There are many types of fantasy players. To be honest, churners and streamers frustrate me too, but you will never get 100% agreement on this issue. Different personalities. Its all in the name of fun anyways. People have different ideas of "fun. Why are there four and six team leagues? Why even give the option? There are lots of things in this game that are best left unexplained. Personally I try not to sweat it too much and just make sure some form of limits is set on every league that i play in. problem solved. Let churners and streamers have their fun in some other league.
thejusman1 wrote:
lastingsgriller wrote:you will understand once you start looking out for the common good of the league instead of focusing soley on the success of your individual team.
Pretty much this. There's more to fantasy than just winning, especially when you play with friends or co-workers.
good points. some people never get this, but its a great point actually.
bigh0rt wrote:I'm not really in agreement here that it's unethical to stream or churn pitchers or players if your league allows it. What if this is the general consensus among the league members that this is how the game is played? More power to them. That's how some leagues like to get down, and far be it from me to harp on them.
That said, I simply wouldn't play in a league where steps haven't been taken to make 'strategies' like these null and void. It wouldn't be a question of ethics, rather simply playing in a league that requires a different set of skills (in my opinion, more advanced ones; I think a monkey could stream and churn their way to a strong finish if league settings allowed it) to be successful. Things like GP limits, IP limits, and Add/Drop limits are designed to allow the cream to rise to the top, as opposed to the most active manager. In fact, any constraint or modification made for a league should be implemented with that thought in mind.
considering that many people play h2h for $$$, and the growing popularity of h2h, I would hardly say that this is an "unwritten rule".
How can you justify your negative response to #2, without giving a negative response to #1.
because disagreement with point #2 does not preclude agreement with point #1. just because money is involved doesn't mean you have to take things "more seriously". people throw money away at roulette and horse racing all the time.
I happen to think point #1 is a pretty valid tenet, since we're talking about fantasy baseball, after all.
bigh0rt wrote:I'm not really in agreement here that it's unethical to stream or churn pitchers or players if your league allows it. What if this is the general consensus among the league members that this is how the game is played? More power to them. That's how some leagues like to get down, and far be it from me to harp on them.
That said, I simply wouldn't play in a league where steps haven't been taken to make 'strategies' like these null and void. It wouldn't be a question of ethics, rather simply playing in a league that requires a different set of skills (in my opinion, more advanced ones; I think a monkey could stream and churn their way to a strong finish if league settings allowed it) to be successful. Things like GP limits, IP limits, and Add/Drop limits are designed to allow the cream to rise to the top, as opposed to the most active manager. In fact, any constraint or modification made for a league should be implemented with that thought in mind.
On a somewhat related note, y'all are getting way too hyped about all of this.
I just read this thread for the first time, and this is the post I would have made. I don't like churning or streaming, but some do and that's fine. I make sure the leagues I'm in have counter-measures in place to deter it...though I don't see anything wrong with adding one or two starters to start Sunday to try and squeak out Ks or something.
However, on a side not...there is actually a written rule against churning (sorry dash 1s) in yahoo's rules. If you're in a public league (though I haven't played in one for years), an opposing manager could file a complaint and get your team locked (at least that's what happened to one of my opponents long ago...perhaps they've changed what they do)...so be careful. You're playing with fire there. Though again, only in public leagues. From yahoo:
"No owner will make any roster moves (including waiver claims, trade proposals, etc.) whose sole purpose is to hamper the play of other owners. "
As far as unwritten rules go, I would have to go with...
1. Stay active regardless of your standing in the league. 2. Don't leave trades out for more than a day after you've seen the offer. 3. Don't collude/manage multiple teams in a single league (goes without saying I suppose).
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by lastingsgriller » Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:15 pm 
