Max Moves, does your league use them? - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Max Moves, does your league use them?

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby Carnac » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:52 pm

We use 65 moves for the year. Works out to just under 3 per week. Have used it for the past 5 years or so and works great. Plenty of moves for spec. pickups (keeper league), injuries and spot start here and there.
Carnac
Major League Manager
Major League Manager

User avatar

Posts: 1397
(Past Year: 71)
Joined: 11 Nov 2003
Home Cafe: Football
Location: Strolling down Penny Lane

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby coma » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:28 pm

socceryank wrote:We limit moves to 3 per week, and it has worked very well.


Same in our league, I really like it. Not the biggest streaming fan.
coma
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1340
(Past Year: 6)
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: WSU

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby OneLoveBoomer » Sat Apr 10, 2010 6:05 pm

In one of mine, we do 100 moves a year, use as you see fit. I like it.
OneLoveBoomer
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 6184
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The offseason.

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby wrveres » Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:52 pm

Max Moves, does your league use them?
yes, and i recommend you never join a league that doesn't have them in one form or another.
wrveres
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterEagle EyeInnovative MemberCafe Musketeer
Posts: 31783
(Past Year: 692)
Joined: 2 Mar 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby Skin Blues » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:57 am

A much better method than a moves limit is having to set weekly lineups. I don't understand why this isn't more prevalent. A GS/IP limit wouldn't help either, as it is still very easy to draft 7 RPs to dominate the ERA/WHIP/SVs/Ks and stream in a new SP every day to dominate in Ws (you might be surprised to know that middle relievers get wins at almost an identical rate as mid-level starting pitchers; 0.06 W/IP). If anything, the GS/IP limit helps this type of tactic.

A pet peeve of mine is when somebody complains about a strategy that is used which is within the rules. If there's no limit on adds/drops, and there's daily transactions, you're damn right I'm gonna draft all RPs and stream in favourable SP matchups. It's by far the most efficient way to win and allows a team to load up on all of the best hitters. And for this reason, weekly lineups and FAAB bidding are used in all major competitions such a NFBC, Tout Wars, LABR, etc.
Skin Blues
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3081
(Past Year: 113)
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby Matthias » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:08 am

Skin Blues wrote:A much better method than a moves limit is having to set weekly lineups. I don't understand why this isn't more prevalent. A GS/IP limit wouldn't help either, as it is still very easy to draft 7 RPs to dominate the ERA/WHIP/SVs/Ks and stream in a new SP every day to dominate in Ws (you might be surprised to know that middle relievers get wins at almost an identical rate as mid-level starting pitchers; 0.06 W/IP). If anything, the GS/IP limit helps this type of tactic.

A pet peeve of mine is when somebody complains about a strategy that is used which is within the rules. If there's no limit on adds/drops, and there's daily transactions, you're damn right I'm gonna draft all RPs and stream in favourable SP matchups. It's by far the most efficient way to win and allows a team to load up on all of the best hitters. And for this reason, weekly lineups and FAAB bidding are used in all major competitions such a NFBC, Tout Wars, LABR, etc.

Weekly lineups create distortive value in 2-start pitchers. A much better method than weekly lineups is scoring systems that punish bad pitching.

Our scoring categories for pitching are:
RAA: ERA including unearned runs;
WHIP: WHIP;
Ks: Ks;
IP: Innings Pitched;
W-L S: Wins Minus Losses for Starting Pitchers only;
REL: Saves plus Holds plus Relief Wins minus Blown Saves minus Relief Losses.

Someone can try to stream mediocre pitchers and they'll bump up their K's and their IPs but they'll brutalize themselves in W-L S, RAA, and WHIP. So we have a transactions limit just to keep something of a check on everybody, but it isn't really necessary. And it certainly isn't needed to keep people from streaming pitchers; that's just a losing strategy.
0-3 to 4-3. Worst choke in the history of baseball. Enough said.
Matthias
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 4860
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby Skin Blues » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:49 pm

ERA and WHIP don't punish bad pitching? Call me crazy but I'd rather have an owner have a distorted value in Chris Volstad's 2-start week than completely overhaul and bastardize fantasy baseball by using those categories. I can't believe people would ever want to play that way. That's the definition of throwing out the baby with the bath water.
Skin Blues
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3081
(Past Year: 113)
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby buffalobillsrul2002 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:54 pm

Skin Blues wrote:A much better method than a moves limit is having to set weekly lineups. I don't understand why this isn't more prevalent. A GS/IP limit wouldn't help either, as it is still very easy to draft 7 RPs to dominate the ERA/WHIP/SVs/Ks and stream in a new SP every day to dominate in Ws (you might be surprised to know that middle relievers get wins at almost an identical rate as mid-level starting pitchers; 0.06 W/IP). If anything, the GS/IP limit helps this type of tactic.

A pet peeve of mine is when somebody complains about a strategy that is used which is within the rules. If there's no limit on adds/drops, and there's daily transactions, you're damn right I'm gonna draft all RPs and stream in favourable SP matchups. It's by far the most efficient way to win and allows a team to load up on all of the best hitters. And for this reason, weekly lineups and FAAB bidding are used in all major competitions such a NFBC, Tout Wars, LABR, etc.


The first paragraph isn't really true. You won't dominate Ws by drafting 6 RP and then streaming a SP. You won't be that high in W, because you aren't going to get W out of closers, you'd need to draft 3-4 closers and then 2 MR or something. You also are going to have to find an SP to start almost every day. In bigger leagues, this is gonna be tough. You'll run into a fair number of days like today. Here are the "streaming" options for today in my 16-team league:

Livan Hernandez
Dan McCutchen
Tom Gorzelanny
Charlie Haeger
Jake Westbrook

IP or GS limits work fine. IP limits work because it's nearly impossible to get to 1450 innings without having the majority of these innings come out of SP. You could try your strategy: it's not going to turn out pretty for you in any category except SV. Remember, your "stream" position is going to end up with about 1000 innings in your system; your "stream" will determine your ERA/WHIP (it'll be ugly), as well as your K/9 (probably gonna look pretty ugly), and W (you could get lucky and do OK here I guess)

GS limits work because relievers don't pitch that many innings. So really the vast majority of your innings come from starts. If you have a maximum number of starts you can use, it essentially acts as an IP cap...
buffalobillsrul2002
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1349
(Past Year: 3)
Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby Skin Blues » Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:54 pm

It's not a universal truth obviously... is anything universal, though? It depends on the league, as with any and all strategies. Depends on the amount of bench spots, how many teams, how many pitching spots per day, how many are SP/RP, etc. Lots of variables, and even more ways to deal with the variables. My point is that in most scenarios including the default Yahoo settings, RPs are highly underutilized, as are spot started pitchers. You can crank up the IP limit, but then you're changing the layout of the game by devaluing hitters and closers. The main issue for me is taking away value from the hitters and putting an inflated value on starting pitching which is unpredictable and adds an element of luck while removing skill. Not terrible I guess, but not ideal either. Weekly lineups is how it's been done for a long time including as I mentioned, almost all well known competition, and has far less ripple effect through the rest of the game. This is just the way I like to play it... everybody is free to play the way they like. For me having a huge IP maximum, or transaction limit, or worst of all adding inane scoring categories would take away from the game too much. If I had to pick my poison I'd take the transaction limit, but then again that doesn't really alleviate the "problem" of spot starting pitchers, it just slows it down.

EDIT: By the way, I have Gorzelanny in an NL only league (not spot started, it's a deep weekly lineups league) and he's not doing so bad so far. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
Skin Blues
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar

Posts: 3081
(Past Year: 113)
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: Max Moves, does your league use them?

Postby Matthias » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:01 pm

Skin Blues wrote:ERA and WHIP don't punish bad pitching? Call me crazy but I'd rather have an owner have a distorted value in Chris Volstad's 2-start week than completely overhaul and bastardize fantasy baseball by using those categories. I can't believe people would ever want to play that way. That's the definition of throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Ok. You're crazy. And hysterical.

Look, fantasy baseball came about with guys adding up box scores at a diner in Manhattan. Since we now have better information, there's no need to stick to the categories that they used. That's not bastardizing, that's evolving. So don't knock it until you try it.

As far as ERA and WHIP punishing bad pitching, they do, but not sufficiently. Because people still come up with cheap "strategies" that involve something other than drafting good players. I would rather play in a league where a team does better drafting Sabathia from the get go rather than spot starting Chris Volstad or Dave Bush or Ryan Rowland Smith or whatever marginal pitcher happens to be on the waiver wire because their skills don't justify being on anyone's team but they happen to have 2 starts that week.
0-3 to 4-3. Worst choke in the history of baseball. Enough said.
Matthias
General Manager
General Manager


Posts: 4860
Joined: 16 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Today's Games
Friday, Oct. 24
(All times are EST, weather icons show forecast for game time)

Kansas City at San Francisco
(8:07 pm)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact