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Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby Metroid » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:11 pm

Have you taken any biology or anatomy classes Mad? Did you know that about 1 in every 100 babies born has some form of intersex condition? That is that their gender is not easily identifiable as either male or female when they're born. In fact they may be hermaphrodite (born with both sexual organs) and often it is the doctor that dictates the individuals gender. You can imagine if the doctor chooses wrong, which sadly happens quite often. It's just not as simple as "you have a penis you're a male, or you have a vagina you're a female." You may want it to be, but it isn't for a vast number of people. Again, it's not for you or I, or anyone else to decide how an individual identifies sexually.

You really need to look past this "breaking rules" stuff and see the big picture. It's not about "her deciding the rules." She's a girl that identifies as a male, she wanted to attend her prom and feel comfortable, just as comfortable as everyone else. The school had a gender based dress code in place which wouldn't allow her to feel as comfortable as everyone else. That's wrong. I'm glad she did what she did, and I hope more young people continue to do the same. Like it or not Mad but feathers have to be ruffled sometimes for change to happen.

Yeah the generic definition "normal" is as you say Mad, I don't agree nor disagree. I just find it funny when people use it to argue what's right and wrong, like normal and abnormal is black and white. Normal is a lot grayer than most people think.

As far as what's next? i don't know Mad, this isn't about setting a precedence, it's about giving people equal rights. It's about allowing people to be and express themselves as they identify. For gods sake, she wanted to wear a tuxedo to prom. That's a problem so huge that the school board felt they needed to cancel it? Really? I mean really?
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby bleach168 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:18 pm

TheRock wrote:
Madison wrote:So what's next? Girls in the boy's bathroom or shower because they identify more as a boy? Or vice versa? Gay guy in the women's bathroom or shower?

As to gender identity, call me small minded, but if someone has a penis, they are a boy and if they have a vagina, they are a girl, regardless of what they "think" they are. If they disagree with that, then have surgery and correct it.



Interesting you should bring that up...


I would be surprised if it went through. Don't some college dorms have all unisex bathrooms and showers?
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby Mookie4ever » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:29 pm

lol, I should know better than to try to debate law with Mad. What was I thinking? :-b
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby Metroid » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:36 pm

Mookie4ever wrote:lol, I should know better than to try to debate law with Mad. What was I thinking? :-b

I know right? :-b

Come on, don't give up now, I think we're on the verge of a breakthrough. :-B
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby Madison » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:55 pm

Metroid wrote:Have you taken any biology or anatomy classes Mad? Did you know that about 1 in every 100 babies born has some form of intersex condition? That is that their gender is not easily identifiable as either male or female when they're born. In fact they may be hermaphrodite (born with both sexual organs) and often it is the doctor that dictates the individuals gender. You can imagine if the doctor chooses wrong, which sadly happens quite often. It's just not as simple as "you have a penis you're a male, or you have a vagina you're a female." You may want it to be, but it isn't for a vast number of people. Again, it's not for you or I, or anyone else to decide how an individual identifies sexually.

You really need to look past this "breaking rules" stuff and see the big picture. It's not about "her deciding the rules." She's a girl that identifies as a male, she wanted to attend her prom and feel comfortable, just as comfortable as everyone else. The school had a gender based dress code in place which wouldn't allow her to feel as comfortable as everyone else. That's wrong. I'm glad she did what she did, and I hope more young people continue to do the same. Like it or not Mad but feathers have to be ruffled sometimes for change to happen.

Yeah the generic definition "normal" is as you say Mad, I don't agree nor disagree. I just find it funny when people use it to argue what's right and wrong, like normal and abnormal is black and white. Normal is a lot grayer than most people think.

As far as what's next? i don't know Mad, this isn't about setting a precedence, it's about giving people equal rights. It's about allowing people to be and express themselves as they identify. For gods sake, she wanted to wear a tuxedo to prom. That's a problem so huge that the school board felt they needed to cancel it? Really? I mean really?


Yes, I took anatomy. Did you read the last article that was linked to? 99% suffer the consequences for the 1% (using your 1 in 100)? Hey, if the girl identifies as a boy, have the surgery, and I'll accept that. Until that time, she's a girl and should use the girls bathroom, girls shower, and follow the rules for girls (such as the dress code). What if one day she feels like a girl, and the next she feels like a boy, and then back to girl again? The school should bend to her every whim? You don't think anyone would abuse that if that were the rule? So have the surgery and that takes care of it.

As I said, there's nothing wrong with being abnormal. Take a bodybuilder as an example. Are their bodies normal? Not even close, those guys and girls are ripped beyond belief! Is that a bad thing? Not at all.

This is 100% about setting a precedenct. If this girl wins this stupid lawsuit, it opens a HUGE can of worms that should not be opened. Just check that article about shared bathrooms in pre-school and nursery school. The concept is the dumbest thing I think I've ever heard and people should certainly be fired over it. Never add fuel to a fire that shouldn't burn in the first place.

Mookie4ever wrote:lol, I should know better than to try to debate law with Mad. What was I thinking? :-b


Who's debating the law? We all know the law is dumb sometimes. I'm talking about people's viewpoints. If guesses are cool, then they should be cool for everything. If absolute proof is needed, it should be that way for everything. Those that flip-flop worse than John Kerry need to pick one and stick with it.
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby Madison » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:10 pm

Metroid wrote:Like it or not Mad but feathers have to be ruffled sometimes for change to happen.


By the way, I don't disagree with this ^^^. However, when the consequences outweigh the benefits, it really isn't worth it. What I mean by that is if this girl sets a precedent, next is what's in that article about shared bathrooms/showers/etc. So allowing her to use the boy's bathroom where she could very easily wind up raped is a good thing? I can guarantee kids will be raped if that passes, there's no way it wouldn't happen, so even if it doesn't happen to her specifically, it's still ok because this girl "thought" she was a boy?

I disagree.
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby Madison » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:23 pm

Or to make it a little "nicer and friendlier", this girl is uncomfortable dressing as a girl for one night, so 99% of the other students for the rest of the time man is on this Earth should be uncomfortable in the one place they should have privacy (bathroom)?

Makes no sense to me.
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby Metroid » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:40 pm

Madison wrote:Makes no sense to me.

And it probably never will. I'm done. Good talk. ;-D
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby bigh0rt » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:47 pm

Madison wrote:But if it is true, as it reads, then every single school in this country is in the wrong, which can't be possible. :-?

They have been before. They will be again.
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Re: Update: Lesbians Sent to Wrong Prom Location

Postby knapplc » Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:06 pm

This was such a happy thread. Let's bump it with an update:


Lesbian gets $35K settlement over canceled prom

JACKSON, Miss. – A rural school district that canceled its prom rather than allow a lesbian student to attend with her girlfriend has agreed to pay $35,000 to settle a discrimination lawsuit the ACLU filed on her behalf.

The district also agreed to follow a non-discrimination policy as part of the settlement, though it argues such a policy was already in place.

Constance McMillen, 18, said the victory came at the price of her being shunned in her small hometown of Fulton.

"I knew it was a good cause, but sometimes it really got to me. I knew it would change things for others in the future and I kept going and I kept pushing," McMillen said in an interview Tuesday.

The flap started in March when McMillen challenged the Itawamba County School District's rules banning prom dates of the same gender and allowing only male students to wear tuxedos. The district responded by canceling its prom, prompting the ACLU to file suit claiming the teen's rights had been violated and demanding the prom be reinstated.

U.S. District Judge Glen H. Davidson refused to make school officials hold the prom, but he said in a March 23 ruling that the district had violated McMillen's rights.

The district later announced parents would sponsor another prom chaperoned by school officials. But ACLU lawyers claimed the event was a "sham prom" attended by only about 10 students, while most of McMillen's classmates partied at a private event elsewhere, a claim the school denied. McMillen's suit also says she's been harassed for her stand against the school's policy.

McMillen's lawyers filed notice Monday in U.S. District Court to accept a judgment offer from the Itawamba County School District that will pay $35,000, plus attorney's fees. As part of the agreement, the school district also said it would follow a policy not to discriminate based on sexual orientation in any educational or extracurricular activities or allow harassment based on sexual orientation and gender identity.

School officials contend that their agreement to follow the non-discrimination policy merely reaffirms inclusiveness rules the district already had, said school board attorney Michele Floyd. She said the district's insurance company will pay McMillen.

District officials said in the settlement offer that they didn't believe they violated McMillen's rights.

The ACLU, however, contends that if the district really had such an inclusiveness policy all along, it wouldn't have banned same-sex prom dates. It also said the district is the first in Mississippi to implement a policy banning discrimination and harassment on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity.

Ben Griffith, the attorney who represented the district in the suit, said school officials are focused on preparing for the upcoming fall semester and wanted to avoid protracted litigation.

"The defendants have consistently taken the position throughout this case that their actions and conduct at all times have been constitutional and lawful in every respect," Griffith said.

Christine P. Sun, an ACLU lawyer, said the case has "inspired countless other people around the world to stand up for what's right."

McMillen has moved to Memphis, Tenn., where she plans to attend Southwest Community College in the spring, majoring in psychology. She said she'll use the settlement money for her college education.

She eventually withdrew from Itawamba Agricultural High School and finished her senior year at a school in Jackson, Miss.

Eliza Byard, executive director of GLSEN: The Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, said only 12 states and the District of Columbia require school district to have policies recognizing sexual orientation and gender identity.

McMillen's case gained national attention and she was featured on talk shows and served as a grand marshal for New York's Gay Pride Parade, among other events. She also visited the White House.

Sun said the ACLU had represented other students in similar cases around the country, but none had garnered as much attention as McMillen's legal battle.

McMillen said she thinks the case resonated with so many people because "prom is a common theme and everyone knows how it feels to want to go to prom. With my story, even if people didn't agree with being gay, they understood. They figured out how cruel some people can be."
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