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When to Veto

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When to veto

Only Collusion
25
56%
Every Unbalanced Trade
1
2%
Only Extremely Unbalanced Trades (even though no collusion)
19
42%
 
Total votes : 45

Re: When to Veto

Postby thejusman1 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:16 pm

thedude wrote:I disagree completely. It is very hard to determine in many cases if a trade is only "kinda unbalanced" or completely unbalanced.


Not really. While it is true that every trade could be perceived differently by every owner, usually there is some consensus when a trade is simply whack. For example, Morneau and Matt Garza for Pujols might make me groan, but I'm not vetoing that even though others might. On the other hand, if it's Arod, Grady Sizemore, and Billy Wagner for Ian Stewart, Ellsbury, Rauch and Matt Guerrier, I think the majority would consider that trade extremely lopsided with the chance to greatly disturb the competitive balance of the league. And when you throw in the fact that it might be a keeper league and that disinterested owners who got shafted in a trade would be left with a pretty poor keeper set, making their team almost impossible to find a replacement owner for, you've got a pretty strong argument for a vigilant veto system.

thedude wrote:Even if it were possible, the other owners in the league are in the worst position to make this value judgment. The owners who are not involved in the trade are not benefited in the least by a trade going through. In fact if one team even has the possibility of improving, the owners have an interest in making sure that trade does not pass because it is a risk that the improving team will win the league. Therefore every owner in every league has the self-interest of vetoing every trade that does not involve his team.


Meh, I get what you're saying here, but I don't believe it. I'm in a league with a healthy veto system and maybe 0-1 trades out of ~20 or so gets vetoed every year. (we trade a LOT). Of course, we've set the Yahoo league settings to Veto by Commissioner and require 50% or more of the league to veto a trade to sink it, because the default settings in Yahoo for League Vetoes are 4 vetoes = vetoed trade (terrible policy, btw. I can't believe there's not an option for a majority vote). There usually is a lone veto here and there for every other trade, but only the truly bad ones get vetoed.
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Re: When to Veto

Postby AussieDodger » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:17 pm

So the answer is still never?
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Re: When to Veto

Postby DaSh 1s » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:20 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:Why on earth would you veto that trade?


I believed it was extremely loop sided.
B-Chad wrote:Pedroia's LD rate of 20% is reason to believe he'll maintain a higher BA then Cano. It should also be noted he hits more FB's then Cano, which means that even if he posts a lower HR/FB then Cano, he should come in reasonably close to Cano in HR's
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Re: When to Veto

Postby great gretzky » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:28 pm

DaSh 1s wrote:
Art Vandelay wrote:Why on earth would you veto that trade?


I believed it was extremely loop sided.


Believe being the operative word here. I believe Ryan Howard is better than Pujols. Problem is, objectively he isn't. But is a trade like that unfair, should it be vetoed? Or does the person have avg to spare and thinks that howard cracks 50 this year, while pujols is around 40. What about Morneau and a closer for a team that needs it? The line is too blurred, too often in this game for some sort of majority opinion to govern trades. Finding where to deviate from majority opinion is a major point to the endeavor in the first place.

I mean yes, we can all say that Pujols for Helton is just absurd. But that is collusion by stupidity. It's like the SC and pornography. That is why I think if there has to be a veto in place, it is the commish, and only the commish. Getting a trade through should not require a majority vote from people who are actively trying to beat you. It's not a game of Survivor, and you shouldn't have to divulge your reasoning to the league.
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Re: When to Veto

Postby DaSh 1s » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:35 pm

It wasn't one owner magically knew BJ Upton and Josh Hamilton would tank. It was more of a matter of one owner being a homer and just sending whatever away to get ARod. The other manager obviously just taking advantage. It was a local neighborhood league, where I expect this casual sort of whatever to occur.

If it was two managers who truly were involved, than I would be okay with it amking speculative gambles or salvaging parts. But it wasn't. I truly believe the owner couldn't prove why he thought sending Upton/Hamilton/Haren was beneficial. I just wasn't okay with one person sending whatever so he can just have ARod on his team.

Again it is the nature of the league, casual local friends, where I expect this stuff to occur so its on me for being involved. But hey, I want to enjoy baseball with my home friends to, so I just have to be evil Veto Nazi every once in a while.
B-Chad wrote:Pedroia's LD rate of 20% is reason to believe he'll maintain a higher BA then Cano. It should also be noted he hits more FB's then Cano, which means that even if he posts a lower HR/FB then Cano, he should come in reasonably close to Cano in HR's
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Re: When to Veto

Postby great gretzky » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:47 pm

That is lopsided, but 3b is thin, Arod is a premiere stud of the game, and OFs are relatively easier to replace, and with Hamilton's substance problems and a likely regression anyway, it's an overpay, but again, I let that go through. It's the ones where a mega-stud is only going to one team that we begin to wonder, but even then, there can be compelling cases for doing that.
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Re: When to Veto

Postby bigh0rt » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:58 pm

The answer to this question is "almost never" -- I've seen a ton of instances in this thread where people are saying they'd veto this or that, that are truly laughable.
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