When to Veto - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2015 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

When to Veto

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

When to veto

Only Collusion
25
56%
Every Unbalanced Trade
1
2%
Only Extremely Unbalanced Trades (even though no collusion)
19
42%
 
Total votes : 45

Re: When to Veto

Postby AussieDodger » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:25 pm

When to Veto


Never. Next question.
ATTENTION LONG-TIMERS! NEW FBC: http://fbc2.freeforums.net/
AussieDodger
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterEagle Eye
Posts: 11363
(Past Year: 25)
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: What do you mean, Flash Gordon approaching?

Re: When to Veto

Postby thejusman1 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:35 pm

I'm in one Cafe league here... I don't think I'll ever use a veto in that league.

But not all other leagues have Cafeholics in it. These comments about "get another league if you're going to veto" are kinda over the top. Not everyone in a workplace, friends, or church fantasy league is going to be a fantasy baseball expert, but at the same time I WANT to play in these leagues because it's much more fun to play with people you know (rubbing in victories, texting/facebooking trade requests, talking trades at the water cooler). That's not something you can just replace easily, so if it takes some responsible policing (ie, veto system) to keep it fun and competitive, I am 100% down for it. I'm not trying to "protect someone" as much as I am trying to prevent somebody else from gaining a decisive advantage and fielding an unbeatable team. There are clearly two camps to this argument, so "veto only if collusion" is not a universal truth.
http://slippingoffaledge.wordpress.com/ - A blog for political rants, fantasy sports, and thoughts from my twisted mind. Warning: Not for children.
thejusman1
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 2815
(Past Year: 1)
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When to Veto

Postby Art Vandelay » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:38 pm

AussieDodger wrote:
When to Veto


Never. Next question.

Yep, pretty much. I've never vetoed a trade and can't really think of any circumstance under which I would. Maybe if the trade was extremely lopsided, like someone traded their first pick for someone else's last pick before the season started, and then said that the reason they did it was because the other player gave them $20 I would veto, but that's about it. If I had a trade vetoed I would not rejoin the league. I'd be tempted to quite the league (at the end of the season, of course) if I even had to justify a trade. Let people manage their teams how they see fit.
Image
Art Vandelay
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

CafeholicFantasy ExpertPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 5265
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When to Veto

Postby woodson_28 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:46 pm

Played in a league last year w/ some friends. The commish filled two open spots w/ his brother and father. No big deal. Halfway through the season, the father is in dead last (H2H), and all of the sudden, he starts shipping Roy Halladay, Braun, etc... to one of his son's team for peanuts. Another owner and I called him out and his response was, "If I'm out of it (playoffs), I want my son to do well". I'm not in that league this season...
woodson_28
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 890
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When to Veto

Postby RRGL1 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:48 pm

pokerplaya wrote:To me, you only veto when there is collusion, and it should be a universal truth.

And if you need to "protect" someone, find a better league.


+1. Nearly all my leagues are Commish-veto only.
RRGL1
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor


Posts: 536
Joined: 13 Mar 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When to Veto

Postby thedude » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:39 pm

woodson_28 wrote:Played in a league last year w/ some friends. The commish filled two open spots w/ his brother and father. No big deal. Halfway through the season, the father is in dead last (H2H), and all of the sudden, he starts shipping Roy Halladay, Braun, etc... to one of his son's team for peanuts. Another owner and I called him out and his response was, "If I'm out of it (playoffs), I want my son to do well". I'm not in that league this season...


That is collusion and is when i would veto.
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 8413
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Good Life

Re: When to Veto

Postby thedude » Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:44 pm

thejusman1 wrote:I'm in one Cafe league here... I don't think I'll ever use a veto in that league.

But not all other leagues have Cafeholics in it. These comments about "get another league if you're going to veto" are kinda over the top. Not everyone in a workplace, friends, or church fantasy league is going to be a fantasy baseball expert, but at the same time I WANT to play in these leagues because it's much more fun to play with people you know (rubbing in victories, texting/facebooking trade requests, talking trades at the water cooler). That's not something you can just replace easily, so if it takes some responsible policing (ie, veto system) to keep it fun and competitive, I am 100% down for it. I'm not trying to "protect someone" as much as I am trying to prevent somebody else from gaining a decisive advantage and fielding an unbeatable team. There are clearly two camps to this argument, so "veto only if collusion" is not a universal truth.


You see, I have no problem with people putting together great teams via trade. That is my goal every single year. I understand it could get frustrating if someone had Mauer, Pujols, Utley, A-Rod, Braun, Crawford, Kemp, Lincecum, and Halladay.... But realistically I don't ever see that happening. In redrafts "world beaters" should be impossible to build due to having to re-draft every year. In keepers rules can be put in place to diminish the powers of "world beaters" from year to year (limit how long players can be kept for, impose penalties for keeping players for multiple years, ect...).
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 8413
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Good Life

Re: When to Veto

Postby TheRock » Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:59 pm

bleach168 wrote:
Or should vetoes only apply when there is proof of collusion.


It's exceedingly rare that collusion can be proved. Give me two teams within the same league and I'll be able to make somewhat justifiable trades that are imbalanced. Do this four times, I win the league.

If you're in the "only veto if collusion" category, you are essentially in the "never veto" category.


Exactly. I think I make this argument every time this subject comes up. You'll never be able to prove collusion unless you're playing with owners who are both dishonest and stupid. Ideally, we would all play with owners we know to be knowledgeable and honest and sincere. That's very often not the case in practice. Could even be a league that formed here. In mixed bag leagues and most newly-formed leagues there will need to be some sort of veto system in place.
Image
TheRock
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
CafeholicCafe WriterMock(ing) Drafter
Posts: 3055
(Past Year: 6)
Joined: 16 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: America's Heartland

Re: When to Veto

Postby dream_017 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:16 am

Art Vandelay wrote:
AussieDodger wrote:
When to Veto


Never. Next question.

Yep, pretty much. I've never vetoed a trade and can't really think of any circumstance under which I would. Maybe if the trade was extremely lopsided, like someone traded their first pick for someone else's last pick before the season started, and then said that the reason they did it was because the other player gave them $20 I would veto, but that's about it. If I had a trade vetoed I would not rejoin the league. I'd be tempted to quite the league (at the end of the season, of course) if I even had to justify a trade. Let people manage their teams how they see fit.

Agree ;-D

There are many more factors that go into trades than just the names of the players - injuries, roster requirements, stat projections, player perceived values. Everyone has a different value on each player and who is to say that that person is wrong. A trade may look unfair on the surface, but what if when the season plays out the person on the 'bad' end of the trade actually would have helped his team, but it was vetoed....I know I'd be pretty pissed about it.
Image
dream_017
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar
CafeholicFootball ModLucky Ladders ChampionPick 3 Weekly WinnerSweet 16 Survivor
Posts: 773
Joined: 3 Aug 2004
Home Cafe: Football
Location: At home on the football side

Re: When to Veto

Postby shawngee03 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:07 am

a tricky form of collusion has presented itself in one of my leagues two different times

my cousin isnt the most knowledgable guy...he just enjoys the game aspect...not all the research and time...so he really doenst know his stuff.

which is fine...but the problem is he will only trade w me. his first year....i sent him a few trade offers...and he accepted everytime. awesome...great for me. it was fine until someone pointed out to me that he was only trading w me...not responding to anyone else's requests...bc he trusted me. he wasnt trying to make my team better at his team's expense...he just didnt know better.

so i had to make it a point not to trade w him anymore for the sake of the league's integrity

the same league has one of my good buddies and his cousin.

the first year they made a trade right after the draft...and another one throughout the year. the cousin did not trade anymore. the next year the same thing. then this year the same thing the day after the draft. all the times my buddy getting the better end of the deal by a good margin. nothing that would create a problem normally....but when you realize that the cousin is like my cousin and only trading w his more knoweldgable cousin out of trust...we finally had to veto the trade this year and tell them to deal with someone else or their stuff would keep getting vetoed

so watch out for the unintenional collusion
shawngee03
Minor League Mentor
Minor League Mentor

User avatar

Posts: 650
Joined: 6 Mar 2007
Home Cafe: Football
Location: H-Town

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


Get Ready...
The 2015 MLB season starts in 4:11 hours
(and 97 days)

  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact