When to Veto - Fantasy Baseball Cafe 2014 Fantasy Baseball Cafe
100% Deposit Bonus for Cafe Members!

Return to Baseball Leftovers

When to Veto

Moderator: Baseball Moderators

When to veto

Only Collusion
25
56%
Every Unbalanced Trade
1
2%
Only Extremely Unbalanced Trades (even though no collusion)
19
42%
 
Total votes : 45

Re: When to Veto

Postby thejusman1 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:39 pm

Haha, good to see this re-posted here. I guess it is a good Leftovers topic.

I voted "extremely lopsided trades should be vetoed." Not every trade is going to be "fair." In fact, most trades will favor one side or the other, I am well aware of that. But the DTKW thread this topic is derived from had this trade as its crux:

Team A sends:
Alex Rodriguez (1st, $35)
Grady Sizemore (4th, $19)
Billy Wagner (17th, $6)

Team B sends:
Ian Stewart (11th, $9)
Jacoby Ellsbury (4th, $30)
Matt Guerrier (15th, $4)
Jon Rauch (17th, $1)


Sorry, but that's getting vetoed by me 100% of the time.

And instead of re-writing my last reply, I'll simply re-post it here:

thedude: First, that trade, while certaintly unbalanced, would hardly make me not want to compete in the league.


Receiving Arod for basically free wouldn't be the end of the world, I agree. But it's a slippery slope to determine which extremely lopsided, unfair trade is the tipping point. Better to have educated league owners police the integrity of the league.

thedude: Second, if it is a serious league or a money league everyone should know what they are getting into. The serious leagues usually are the leagues where trades like this are not likely to occur.


In a serious league, everyone should know better, but not everyone will. Serious leagues can lose owners and the replacements could be relative newbies (which is exactly what happened in my main keeper league this year). Are you telling me that a serious league that has been going on for multiple years should be effectively ruined by ONE new owner getting hosed in a trade? Some of us like having fun, competitive leagues every year, and not having to compete against a team composed like Arod, Utley, Pujols, Hanley, CC, Lincecum, and Halladay every year for the next 5 years.

thedude: Third, unless there is collusion, it is doubtful that one owner will continually fleece the other owner. When the rest of league sees this they will undoubtedly offer trades to the "loser" of the trade. Since that owner will then have multiple trade offers to consider, he will choose the best and be less likely to get fleeced again. The free market in the works!


Ahh... a true believer of Milton Friedman. But the free market needs regulatory agencies, or chaos will run amok! Veto system is fantasy baseball's equivalent of the FTC.
http://slippingoffaledge.wordpress.com/ - A blog for political rants, fantasy sports, and thoughts from my twisted mind. Warning: Not for children.
thejusman1
General Manager
General Manager

User avatar
Cafeholic
Posts: 2814
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When to Veto

Postby mweir145 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:42 pm

I'd love to know Team B's rationale on that one...wow. :-b
25
mweir145
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
Eagle Eye
Posts: 16784
(Past Year: 4)
Joined: 3 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Toronto

Re: When to Veto

Postby pokerplaya » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:48 pm

bleach168 wrote:
Or should vetoes only apply when there is proof of collusion.


It's exceedingly rare that collusion can be proved. Give me two teams within the same league and I'll be able to make somewhat justifiable trades that are imbalanced. Do this four times, I win the league.

If you're in the "only veto if collusion" category, you are essentially in the "never veto" category.


I'd agree with this. I guess I'm in the never veto category. I only play in leagues where I'm
very confident there won't be shenanigans, so for the last 4-5 years and 20 or so leagues, there hasn't been any vetoes.

When I first started playing 8-9 years ago, I was on both sides of a veto. First because they were "protecting" me and then when they were "protecting" the other team. It definitely pisses you off when you are told by others that you can't run your own team, especially when it's your own hard earned cash you are putting on the line. From then on, I vowed that I won't be in any leagues where vetoes are the norm. And if there are any vetoes with current leagues, that will be a league that I don't play in again.
pokerplaya
Kitchen Staff
Kitchen Staff

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy ExpertCafe WriterCafe RankerMock(ing) DrafterEagle EyeCafe MusketeerPick 3 Weekly WinnerLucky Ladders Weekly Winner
Posts: 12812
(Past Year: 9)
Joined: 18 May 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When to Veto

Postby bleach168 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:54 pm

It took me some 5 years to get into a league devoid of bad players (thank you cafe!). But I remember this being the #1 reason I was frustrated with fantasy baseball. There is no perfect solution to this problem. You just have to persevere until you get into a good league.
"And so he spoke, and so he spoke, that lord of Castamere. But now the rains weep o'er his hall, with no one there to hear." - The Rains of Castamere
bleach168
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicFantasy Expert
Posts: 5058
(Past Year: 16)
Joined: 22 Apr 2003
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When to Veto

Postby thedude » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:58 pm

mweir145 wrote:I'd love to know Team B's rationale on that one...wow. :-b

True that was a bad trade.
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 8413
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Good Life

Re: When to Veto

Postby thedude » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:03 pm

Padsin05 wrote:if you HAVE to veto a trade due to unbalance or collusion get in a different league.


This is the correct response. If there is no collusion, i really don't think it should be vetoed. If there was collusion then the league is probably going to have problems all year, and I do not want the headache.

This is why i won't play in big money leagues unless I know all the owners personally (or had someone I trust vouch for the one or two people I don't know) or unless everyone is a cafe regular.
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 8413
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Good Life

Re: When to Veto

Postby boredguy » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:06 pm

I usually go by "if the guy can make a reasonable argument that the trade improves his team" then it's no veto. When you see a lopsided trade ask the guy getting the crap half and ask him to explain how the trade will help his team. If the guy makes it seem like he honestly believes that it improves his team i'll let it go even if i feel it's quite lopsided. If he can't answer or comes up with something that's pretty obviously bs, i'll veto.
boredguy
College Coach
College Coach


Posts: 260
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Canada

Re: When to Veto

Postby thedude » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:06 pm

bleach168 wrote:
Or should vetoes only apply when there is proof of collusion.


It's exceedingly rare that collusion can be proved. Give me two teams within the same league and I'll be able to make somewhat justifiable trades that are imbalanced. Do this four times, I win the league.

If you're in the "only veto if collusion" category, you are essentially in the "never veto" category.


IMO, if there are multiple extremely unbalanced trades between two teams that is evidence of collusion. Without that (or some kind of known relationship between the owners) there is nothing you can do.
"I do not think baseball of today is any better than it was 30 years ago... I still think Radbourne is the greatest of the pitchers." John Sullivan 1914-Old athletes never change.
thedude
Hall of Fame Hero
Hall of Fame Hero

User avatar
CafeholicPick 3 Weekly Winner
Posts: 8413
(Past Year: 2)
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: The Good Life

Re: When to Veto

Postby Padsin05 » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:07 pm

thedude wrote:
mweir145 wrote:I'd love to know Team B's rationale on that one...wow. :-b

True that was a bad trade.


as bad of a trade that it is, I still wouldnt veto it. Ellsbury/Sizemore, maybe hes weak in steals but call it a wash, maybe the guy getting Stewart is weak at 2B and has Reynolds at 3B, maybe Stewart solves his BA problems and hits .280 with 33 hrs and knocks in 100, definately possible, maybe Wagner gets hurt, and Rauch has 38 saves, is it likely no? is it possible sure why not, thats why I always let each owner decide what he wants to do with HIS team
Last edited by Padsin05 on Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Padsin05
Major League Manager
Major League Manager


Posts: 1540
(Past Year: 12)
Joined: 3 Jun 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball

Re: When to Veto

Postby boredguy » Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:09 pm

Padsin05 wrote:if you HAVE to veto a trade due to unbalance or collusion get in a different league.


Meh, i don't agree with this. Most leagues have some turnover over a few years and no matter how well you vet new owners, sometimes a bad owner will sneak through. If it's constantly a problem, then yeah, the league sucks.
boredguy
College Coach
College Coach


Posts: 260
Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Home Cafe: Baseball
Location: Canada

PreviousNext

Return to Baseball Leftovers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

Forums Articles & Tips Sleepers Rankings Leagues


  • Fantasy Baseball
  • Article Submissions
  • Privacy Statement
  • Site Survey 
  • Contact